Hi Folks,

I ran a KOER test on my 93 f-150 on the weekend, and I got the following codes:
213 - SPOUT Circuit Open
536 - Insufficient RPM change during dynamic response test

In continuous memory I have
179 - Fuel system was rich at part throttle Single, Right or Rear HO2S - Fuel control"

Any ideas what these mean for me? Perhaps the SPOUT circuit is shorted.. but I don't know what this does or where to find it?

Thanks in advance

 

JB, I have a 93 also. The spout is coming off of the drivers side fender, just under the ign. module. It is a short pair of wires and should have a grey cap on the connector. It is supposed to short the connector. If yours is missing, you will have a open connector hanging off the ign. module.

 

Thanks Dbuck found it no problem right where you said.

The cap is still on, and the wires look to be in good shape.

Anyone have any other ideas for why I would be getting a code 213?

Thanks

 

Possibly a bad ignition module...... I would replace that o2 sensor or make sure it's plugged in, you may also want to seriously get the EEC checked out, as it may have died.

 

Why did you do a engine running test?

The problem's come up on the engine off test.

IIRC, your are supposed to accelerate @ WOT once during the actual analyzing.

I've only done the KOER test once, and didn't find any error codes that the KOEO didn't already have. Since then, I've never done it again.

 

I have this problem too. I went to the dealer yesterday regarding an EGR problem (it was a bad connector) and while talking to the mechanic he said that it was a bogus code.

When I talked to the service rep he said that all my problems were related to the EGR problem, and they would go away, a blatant lie, problems still exist.

Do you have the problem of hesitation upon light acceleration in just about any gear as well? I checked the entire SPOUT wire circuit from the PCM all the way to the ignition module as outlined in Haynes, I saw no problems. If you observe the change in ignition timing during the KOER test do you see the timing advancing? It should move back and forth during the test and stay at about 20-30 degrees advanced for 2 min at the end of the test.

Does any one out there know about this? I don't belive that the PCM giving this code is normal or something to be ignored, if it was there would be a lot more posts

 

test the gray spout connector with an ohmmeter, making sure it is good, don't assume that it is hard plastic and cannot break, the wire inside is delicate it can break. An open wire is a broken wire, a shorted wire can be shorted to power or ground, but they are not the same, and open circuit is a broken circuit. broken Wire

 

Thanks for the reply, Good call. But.... I tested the entire circuit as outlined in Haynes, wiring harness back to pin 36 on the PCM connector, up to the IM the whole 9 yards, Including the resistance of the shorting bar, all checked out ok. As I mentioned timing is obviously advancing, inserting the shorting bar is advancing the timing a little bit as described in the manuals as well. The engine is having EGR problems too, ie too much EGR, this is causing the famous bucking inline 6 problem. I get a failure to control RPM code a lot of times when running a KOER test, maybe the computer thinks that's a result of SPOUT failure, but I doubt it as I have had tests come out with out the failure to control RPM code but still the 213 code is there. It's odd that the Ford dealer mechanic said he's seen that before and it means nothing. The dealer I went to has a very bad reputation and they seem to just tell you what you want to hear so I don't know. That's why I was wondering if anyone else has a 213 but no other problems as well.

 

Have you pulled the SPOUT with the key on or the engine running? I've heard this can cause the 213 code, but don't know for sure.

 

Yes that certainly will cause that code. But I'm doing the test by the book, SPOUT connector in, timing set correctly, Clutch depressed etc. Whenever I do check the timing, I Pull the shorting bar then I start the engine, adjust the timing and then put the plug back in. I know that you can clear the KOEO codes by stopping the test in the middle of the signal output but I don't think that clears the KOER codes. I had some codes before in the KOER test and when I solved those problems the codes went away. I also went out and bought an entirely new PCM last weekend and it too shows the 213 code. Maybe the Ford Mechanic was right about some engines just having this as a ghost code, as I've previously remarked the timing is obviously advancing and at the end of the KOER test it stays at the 20-30 degree mark for the 2 minutes. The PCM just seems to think that it has a short in that circuit. I did notice that the resistance between one of the wires and ground was only around 6K ohms, and haynes says they should be greater than 10K ohms. I'm going to take it to PEP boys on Saturday and have them run a diagnostic, cheaper and they will work with you, the dealer is just not willing to cooperate with people who work on their own vehicles.

 

In the target training manual, for the pin 36 spout signal, it is an output from the computer to the TFI module as a digital signal, Dwell is 50-55% and frequency is 34-40 HZ @725 rpm. This signal sets the ignition and fuel injection timing, my best guess from here is the PCM is not seeing the signal but yet it is delivering the spout correction to the TFI, for you can see it on the balancer as advanced timing. Track down another PCM, Hope this helps, Broken Wire

 

Thanks for the reply! I have to find a better manual, I saw you mentioned the "target training manual", is this bought from Helm inc by chance, do you know what these more in depth manuals cost approx? In response to your post, I even went and bought a new PCM! Same problem. I checked the AC voltage on this circuit when cranking the engine and it checked out, I did not check the frequency, ie dwell. I was going to buy a diagnostic tach anyways, maybe I'll check it out. I went through the entire wire path from the PCM to the IM and and I Found no shorts or broken wires. I think I"ll create a new posting for this one, I'm curious if others are finding this as well, if the mechanic was telling the truth that it is just a bogus code it should be common. Thanks

 

Target Training is out of Business, the books where 120.00 a book and most where year and make specific, They used people like myself that want to learn, and do it full time, and have the equipment to get them information from new vehicles, by backprobing the ECM and then giving them the information, The gave you an incentive for doing this for them, they did not ask you to do it for free, then they took all of the values from several perfectly running engines and tabulated them, they came up with real information and placed a 10% high or low limit on the values, that way you knew when you where real close and what was out of spec. There is another Co. out there by the name of MPC, I don't like there books though, but they are the only books left with specific information, Target pinned it at the computer, MPC goes at each sensor. I don't even use Target or MPC anymore, I get a wiring diagram and go to town, you have inputs and outputs, powers and grounds, this is the basic to automotive electrics. they are all basically the same. If you want to excell here, you need to get into a graphing multimeter and next would be a labscope. I don't think 213 is a bogus code, Fords computers where made by Intell, I don't think they are a bogus Co. either. Broken Wire

 

Ford computers use Motorola chipsets, and the computers very rarely go bad. I hope you can take the new one back, because there's nothing wrong with the old one. It seems to be pretty common for people to automatically condemn the computer when that is rarely the cause of the problems.

 

I like alldata.com they show the TSBs for your vehicle as well as component location. I started using the site when my Chilton nor Hayne's book isolated a broken temperature sensor on my car. The cost for the first vehicle is about 28 dollars I believe and tehn 14 dollars for every vehicle thereafter. This is the same site that mechanics use, they just have the professional version. Not saying this will correct your problem but, it is worth looking into.