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Another no-start.

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Old Dec 15, 2016 | 05:26 PM
  #1  
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Another no-start.

So the victim: 89 F250 with the 7.3 idi non-turbo, manual transmission (if it makes a difference).

The symptoms:
No start, slow to crank, batteries seem to be depleted very quickly (after about 30 total seconds of cranking) however last time they were charged they showed significant charge left (800+ and 600+) even though the solenoid clicking was the only thing going on. Last few attempts to start have not had any smoke.
Last time the truck was started was Saturday morning. Was very difficult to start, smoked a lot for the first few minutes it was running, it hasn't smoked like that before. No issues starting throughout the rest of the day.
Fuel tank is pretty much full.

Things I've tried/replaced:
Grounds cleaned, ground cable on passenger side replaced with 0 gauge welding wire.
Cracked open injector line and cranked, was rewarded with fuel as expected.
Checked FSS for the appropriate click when removing and reattaching lead with ignition on (successful).
Glow plugs are less than 6 months old and the WTS light stays on for an appropriate amount of time.
Lift pump replaced with an inline electric remediating air intrusion issues.
Starter is about 4 months old and still under warranty. Planning on pulling it and having it tested tomorrow to see if its overdrawing.
Block heater currently does not work, waiting on a replacement AC cord, should be here tomorrow.
Batteries passed load test within the past week. Walmart group size 65 (850 CCA) and are about 9 months old, both replaced at the same time.

So with that all said, any other ideas? I'm at a bit of a loss at this point.
 
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Old Dec 15, 2016 | 07:51 PM
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You checked, cleaned and replaced grounds, what shape is your hot wire in? The way you describe it it sounds like a bad starter if it's turning over slow and draining very quickly (but that could be in part due to Walmart batteries too)

I know replacing the grounds helped my old starter work, but replacing the starter made it spin right over like nobody's business. First thing I'd do is get that new starter checked!
 
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Old Dec 15, 2016 | 09:00 PM
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when batteries are cold they push half of their cranking capacity .. when it goes rurr rurr ru r rr .. it's not just the thick oil .. it's also the cold batteries ..

put a battery charger on 10 amps for a few minutes prior to starting .. or 50 amps for 20 seconds and then key ..

this gets the electolite hot and though they might not really be 'charging' they are 'warming' the batteries .. to go ..

i also just wrapped my battery ( i have just 1 group 31) in a door mat / when a battery is in use .. alt charging .. starting and stuff it heats up .. not alot .. but some .. inside .. insulating a battery sound dumb but .. if after 4-5 hrs the heat loss is reduced .. and your bats only lose 35# crank .. wehl .. that's better than 50% .. it important because i only have one so i can't crank forever .. enen 30 seconds is more crank than i have on a newer good battery ..

also i start off ether no glo plugs / note . don't ever use ether pluse glo plugs ..

also i extend ed my ether straw far into the cab so now i can administer the dope while keying if it's not catching right off the first hit being tooo \cold ..

when at home i put something on it to warm for a few hours first .. hair dryer .. propane heater under .. coal embers whateve under the motor .. and then a batt charger even if the bats are full to warm them and easir on them .. then i use ether from a series of straws plumbed to the intake ..

when i'm not at home .. and it's a remote start .. i start it every 5 hrs .. (lunch) and rev it up to temp ..

also i keep an emergency propane bottle and a can with holes drilled in it and some vasoline and matches and cotton bolls .. if it got dead cold with no pwer .. i position the holy can under the pan and smear the cotton with vasoline (fuel) and light it and put it under the pan .. then take off the intake hat and light the propane plumber torch .. and drop it in the intake .. not be carefull propane is hot enough to melt aluminum keep mindfull of the primary flame tip ..

i have only had to take the extreme measures on rare occasions but it's good to always be prepared .. be carefull to exhaust the flame and wait a minute if u light propane in the intake and also use ether as it will auto combust at only 150 degrees and the propane can get 2000 degrees // let the aluminum heat soak it out to preven pre detonation .. also if your at home stuffing a hair dryer into the intake 10 minutes also does the trick ..

but be careful don't mix glo plugs and ether ..
 
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Old Dec 16, 2016 | 11:36 AM
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Well the starter tested good. I'll try pulling the glow plug leads, getting some heat in it manually and starting it with some ether.
 
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Old Dec 16, 2016 | 01:22 PM
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Some propane and ether and shes running again. I guess my glow plugs aren't going to be enough these days with the lows in the teens. Hopefully a new cord gives me a working block heater. until I can verify that I'll be keeping the glow plugs unhooked and a torch and starting fluid in the cab.

Thanks for the ideas guys.
 
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Old Dec 17, 2016 | 12:49 PM
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what brand glow plugs, and how long does the WTS light stay on? my 88 will start rite up below zero with 6 year old batteries in it.
 
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Old Dec 17, 2016 | 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by tjc transport
what brand glow plugs, and how long does the WTS light stay on? my 88 will start rite up below zero with 6 year old batteries in it.
they are the proper motocraft zd9 plugs. wts stays on for ten or so seconds.
 
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Old Dec 18, 2016 | 08:26 AM
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hook a light or 12 volt LED to the output of the glow plug relay and mount it inside the cab somewhere. this will tell you if power is going to the glow plugs or not. i have never trusted the WTS light in any of my diesels. i have seen the WTS would come on but no power out of the GPR as per the light way to many times.
 
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Old Dec 18, 2016 | 11:35 PM
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you can make a cord .. mine was falling apart to the point that it was 'buzzing' due to arching .. i pulled it out and cut it back .. just 2 leads on the outside of the 3 .. the middle is just ground and not required .. i cut an old lamp cord and used yellow butt splices ..

cut the plastic on one side flush with metal .. crimp the other side to the wire .. and .. now this is the only tricky part .. squeze the butt connector little by little till it just wiggles onto the connectors .. the outside 2 .. either polarity will work it's just a resistance heater ..

you have to make a firm fit or they will burn up .. it u squeze it too tight put it in a vice and drill it back out and keep at it till they're both secure ..

i did this and it cost me 15c in butt splices and a free old lamp cord for a new cord .. worked great .. but my block heater wingnut cracked and leaked so i pulled it .. but i still have it .. i think i will try and find a new wingnut and o-ring and put it back in .. the block heaters work good it's just they can be leaky like mine was and the cords get old and crack ..

glad u got er goin' again
 
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Old Dec 21, 2016 | 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by tjc transport
hook a light or 12 volt LED to the output of the glow plug relay and mount it inside the cab somewhere. this will tell you if power is going to the glow plugs or not. i have never trusted the WTS light in any of my diesels. i have seen the WTS would come on but no power out of the GPR as per the light way to many times.
Good call, I can see how assuming the WTS light indicating a properly functioning glow plug system could be an inaccurate assumption. It could just indicate that the relay is latching, not that the glow plugs are actually heating up.

To test I could set up a test light/12v led and jump from the bullet connector to a ground right at the glow plug and test them individually that way right?


As far as the block heater wiring, I didn't have continuity between the plug itself and an inch further up the wire, so seems like I need the actual three prong plug that hooks to the block heater. Seemed more cost effective to order a new cord and get a new plug at that point.
 
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Old Dec 21, 2016 | 12:24 PM
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After putting in the new cord, now I have continuity across the plugs so it should be heating up. I cycled the glow plugs once and got a little more than 8 volts from the bullet connector to ground across a meter. Manually felt the plugs (still in engine) after one cycle and they are warm to the touch.
 
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Old Dec 21, 2016 | 12:34 PM
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i have found that if the power is coming out of the GPR, it is going to the plugs and they will work if the plugs are good.
my plug on the block heater wire went probably 10 years ago or more. i cut it off and put a new heavy duty plug end on and it had been fine since.
 
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