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“You are supposed to go 5K-7.5K on an LOF. That way, Ford can sell you either another vehicle, or an engine, after 100K pops up on the clock. Providing it makes it that far. But in honesty, I think the main problems now are the size of the oil filters today.”
“Turbo engines beat the **** out of oil like motorcycles.”
“Knowing the Ford engines and my experience with Mazda, I wouldn't push the oil change interval past 4k miles regardless of synthetic or not. Especially if you beat on the car.”
“Car manufacturers use the customers as lab rats for testing. I'd be concerned that the oil is taking a beating due to the DI, heat from the turbocharger working overtime, and so on. The turbo won't be the only thing taking a beating either.”
“The black "soot" he's seeing on the tail pipes is actually oil blow by from the leaky turbos. That's why all turbo Fords smoke so bad. They think they can survive 7,500 miles between oil changes.”
Karrpilot December 2014
“Combine all of this with customers who buy into those 5-7K oil changes, and we have a ticking time bomb.”
“It would seem to me that especially aged, high miles oil is going to have a real tendency to coke up when subjected to conditions like that. I've changed a number of turbochargers out (foreign cars) and every single one of them failed due to coked oil; and those were ones without the start/stop feature.”
“Ford is just like all the rest; as long as that POS makes it through the warranty period or even better, gets wiped out in a collision and hauled to the boneyard, they're content......”
“Makes me wonder how Ford is going to get out of paying all those claims against them if the customer's follow their owners guide maintenance intervals. Yep. 100K tune ups, 100K coolant change out, 7.5K LOF's, not servicing the PTU units, transmissions, etc.”
“Me thinks I am going to be having my hands quite full in the coming years...............”
I'm not following your logic here. Everybody knows that when a filter plugs up, it creates big problems regardless of whether it's a fluid filter or air filter.
The filters for these trucks are less than $20 bucks online and they are easy to change. I'm not sure why you wouldn't just drop the pan, swap the filter, clean the magnet, and button it back up.
Yes, the difficult part is getting all 7.5 quarts of fluid back in while the engine is running, but I found that a $6.95 "oven glove" from Amazon.com allowed me to work around the catalytic converter with no fears of getting burned. I spent $100 total, and now I have the peace of mind knowing that over 50% of my fluid is fresh, and my filter is brand new, and my magnet is clean.
My theory on the filter is that it doesn't really filter much. The only way it will clog up is if the trans has already failed. Sure, a clogged filter can cause a trans to fail, but that is only if the filter actually filters, which is not the case here. If there is ever enough debris in the filter to plug it, it is because the trans failed.
By changing the filter, you are actually reducing the filtering capability of the system. Sure, you are increasing the capacity of the filter, but the capacity is already above what you need, so nothing is gained, but filter efficiency is lost by changing it out.
This isn't always true. Some filters like the revised internal filter for the 5r110 actually filter and need to be changed, but the 6r80 is truly a lifetime filter.
No problems dropping the pan and changing the fluid that way. Thats good PM when done on a regular interval, or when done several times in a row to get the majority of the fluid out at one time. But if my choices are between a hot flush and dropping the pan, I'm doing the hot flush. Cleaning the magnet would be a bonus, but not enough alone for me to drop the pan.
I'm not following your logic here. Everybody knows that when a filter plugs up, it creates big problems regardless of whether it's a fluid filter or air .
It's best to change the filter the first time do to more material being in it from break in.
“You are supposed to go 5K-7.5K on an LOF. That way, Ford can sell you either another vehicle, or an engine, after 100K pops up on the clock. Providing it makes it that far. But in honesty, I think the main
problems now are the size of the oil filters today.”
“Turbo engines beat the **** out of oil like motorcycles.”
“Knowing the Ford engines and my experience with Mazda, I wouldn't push the oil change interval past 4k miles regardless of synthetic or not. Especially if you beat on the car.”
“Car manufacturers use the customers as lab rats for testing. I'd be concerned that the oil is taking a beating due to the DI, heat from the turbocharger working overtime, and so on. The turbo won't be the only thing taking a beating either.”
“The black "soot" he's seeing on the tail pipes is actually oil blow by from the leaky turbos. That's why all turbo Fords smoke so bad. They think they can survive 7,500 miles between oil changes.”
Karrpilot December 2014
“Combine all of this with customers who buy into those 5-7K oil changes, and we have a ticking time bomb.”
“It would seem to me that especially aged, high miles oil is going to have a real tendency to coke up when subjected to conditions like that. I've changed a number of turbochargers out (foreign cars) and every single one of them failed due to coked oil; and those were ones without the start/stop feature.”
“Ford is just like all the rest; as long as that POS makes it through the warranty period or even better, gets wiped out in a collision and hauled to the boneyard, they're content......”
“Makes me wonder how Ford is going to get out of paying all those claims against them if the customer's follow their owners guide maintenance intervals. Yep. 100K tune ups, 100K coolant change out, 7.5K LOF's, not servicing the PTU units, transmissions, etc.”
“Me thinks I am going to be having my hands quite full in the coming years...............”
IMHO, this is what I have dome with every vehicle I have owned....and mind you, we typically keep our vehicles for 100k+ miles & up to 20 years......
Engine Management System
• 100,000 Miles Oxygen Sensor Replace
Electronic Fuel Injection System
• Annual Throttle Body & Assembly Inspect, Clean & Lubricate as Necessary
• 6 Months Fuel Injectors Add Redline or BG Brand Fuel Injector Cleaner to
Fuel Tank
• 30,000 Miles Fuel Filter Replace
Fuel Lines (non-EFI systems)
• 5 Years Rubber Replace
Cooling System
• Annual Anode/Cathodic Protection Inspect
• 5 Years Radiator Drain & Flush System
• 5 Years Hoses Replace
Power Steering
• 5 Years Hoses Inspect & Replace as Necessary
• 30,000 Miles Fluid Drain & Refill
Belts
• 4 Years V-Drive Replace
• 5 Years Serpentine Replace
Transmission
• 30,000 Miles Automatic Transmission Fluid Drain & Refill
• 30,000 Miles Automatic Transmission Filter Replace as Necessary
• 30,000 Miles Stick with Automatic Type Fluid Drain & Refill
Differential
• 30,000 Miles Fluid Drain & Refill
Brakes & Assemblies
• Annual Drums, Rotors & Linings Surface Sand, Degrease, Inspect & Replace as Necessary
• Annual Fluid- Silicone Type Bleed System
• 3 Years Fluid- Conventional Type Bleed System
• 30,000 Miles Wheel Bearings Inspect, Clean & Repack
IMHO, I am not buying off on the 5000k+ service intervals nor the 100k coolant service intervals (without cathodic protection)
Be careful believing anything you read on flatraretech.com that forum is as much humor as it is info. Since it is made up entirely of extremely disgruntled(and 90% of them are already out of the business) techs who hate all vehicles and the people that drive them.
The Motorcraft filters for the 4R75 had filtran wrote on them and were definitely one of the microfelt filters. I can't remember if the 6r80 filters do or not but I'd assume they are. In this article they are said to be 60-80 micron instead of the 200 for old screen type.
When i say screen I'm thinking about like the ones used in the zx2's 4eat. That thing was nothing but a rock catcher and once I took a look at one I knew there was no reason to ever change mine.
All transmission filters installed on the suction side of the pump need to be high flow and that's probably going to take priority over high efficiency filtration. So they most likely would last the 100-150k recommended interval. I personally like to do an earlier change to get the break in metals out.
The lack of a service interval from Ford means absolutely nothing. Many automakers are doing it. The "extended service intervals" are nothing but a marketing ploy, meant to be yet another selling point to the vehicle. They know that past 60,000 miles, they aren't on the hook for warranty anymore, so naturally they are going to tell customers that they can drive to the moon and back if they want.
I looked at my filter closely when I removed it and it does, in fact, filter quite well. It's not a screen like some may think. It's clearly meant to be replaced, and replacements are cheap and come with new O-ring seals already installed.
It baffles me that people think moving parts in an engine will wear out the oil, so they are diligent in replacing the filter often, but they don't believe that the moving parts in the transmission will ever wear out the fluid and that they can drive on it forever.
True story: When I told my father this past summer that I was changing my trans. filter and fluid he said, "Ahh...leave it alone. I've got 280,000 on my Duramax and I've never touched the transmission filter". Well, last week he told me that his transmission is starting to slip and behave oddly. And I reminded him of our conversation earlier this year.
Well, you can just put a filter in line, maybe 10 microns? Or larger media if you wish. True, it is a bypass as it only gets a lot of fluid when the transmission is hot, but there is flow at all times when running.
The lack of a service interval from Ford means absolutely nothing. Many automakers are doing it. The "extended service intervals" are nothing but a marketing ploy, meant to be yet another selling point to the vehicle. They know that past 60,000 miles, they aren't on the hook for warranty anymore, so naturally they are going to tell customers that they can drive to the moon and back if they want.
I looked at my filter closely when I removed it and it does, in fact, filter quite well. It's not a screen like some may think. It's clearly meant to be replaced, and replacements are cheap and come with new O-ring seals already installed.
It baffles me that people think moving parts in an engine will wear out the oil, so they are diligent in replacing the filter often, but they don't believe that the moving parts in the transmission will ever wear out the fluid and that they can drive on it forever.
True story: When I told my father this past summer that I was changing my trans. filter and fluid he said, "Ahh...leave it alone. I've got 280,000 on my Duramax and I've never touched the transmission filter". Well, last week he told me that his transmission is starting to slip and behave oddly. And I reminded him of our conversation earlier this year.
I have an older friend that spent his whole life in a service dept. Started as a mechanic and retired as service manager at a Lexus store before starting his own business, where I worked for him for nearly a decade. On his personal vehicles and our pick-ups he'd NEVER touch the transmission unless it leaked. He said he'd seen to many transmissions fail soon after a fluid change and very few fail that could be blamed simply on tired fluid alone. Fluid doesn't easily die, something kills it.
At 280,000 miles placing blame on modern fluid for a worn transmission would be tough for me to do.
I have an older friend that spent his whole life in a service dept. Started as a mechanic and retired as service manager at a Lexus store before starting his own business, where I worked for him for nearly a decade. On his personal vehicles and our pick-ups he'd NEVER touch the transmission unless it leaked. He said he'd seen to many transmissions fail soon after a fluid change and very few fail that could be blamed simply on tired fluid alone. Fluid doesn't easily die, something kills it.
At 280,000 miles placing blame on modern fluid for a worn transmission would be tough for me to do.
Almost all of those failures after service are because a "flush machine" is used. What that does is jar loose deposits that have built up over time...sort of like a blood clot in your body. Not good.
Dropping the pan and replacing the filter and fluid is nothing but healthy for a transmission. Synthetic fluid itself doesn't "wear out", but the detergent and additive packages inside it do. Fluid can only hold so much contaminate before it fails. This is why fluid turns a dark color over time just like engine oil. Clutch discs can slip, electrical connections can start accumulating metal shavings and fail (this has actually been a specific issue on the 6R80), and other bad things can start to happen.
If my Dad had replaced his fluid and filter a long time ago, he wouldn't be driving a slipping, clunking transmission around to job sites right now.
the spin on filters on a duramax are supposed to be changed on a regular interval. he did a disservice to his transmission by ignoring or refusing to change it.
kind of an apples to oranges comparison though. some, like the 5r110 are designed to be changed, some are not.
The MERCON LV fluid is dark from the factory so color can't be considered. I'm certain that the adage of a flushing machine kills a transmission has more to do with older transmissions and older fluid types t hat require 30K mile service intervals but never get checked. Many shops won't flush an older transmission that never been flushed before because of potential for failure after the fact. But, a transmission that's been serviced like it's supposed to be shouldn't pose an issue.
The MERCON LV fluid is dark from the factory so color can't be considered. I'm certain that the adage of a flushing machine kills a transmission has more to do with older transmissions and older fluid types t hat require 30K mile service intervals but never get checked. Many shops won't flush an older transmission that never been flushed before because of potential for failure after the fact. But, a transmission that's been serviced like it's supposed to be shouldn't pose an issue.
My Mercon LV was a bright, translucent pink color. Not dark at all. The fluid I drained out of the trans, on the other hand, was dark. But, it had 100,000 miles of hard work on it so that was to be expected.
cannot tell you how many times Ive seen the filter plug up. Ive seen motorhome transmissions fail because of that, they would have maybe 35k on it, and then the owner would go on a trip......and not make it. IMHO, flushing is a joke because it doesnt solve the filter problem. on mine, I drop the pan, clean it, change the filter. since I have been doing this, Ive not had a transmission fail. and this is all kinds of vehicles.
