Need some advice...Replaced the upper control arms, lower ball joints and tie rod ends with Moog Problem Solver parts, along with Moog 3 degree camber adjustment plates.

The shop I took it to had just purchased a new "state of the art" alignment machine that gives you a print out of the before and after results.

When the guy gave me the print out I was less than impressed because the right side camber was right on the border of being in the red.

I said something to the guy and he told me that "little ole bit ain't nothing" and that I would "get maximum mileage out of my brand new tires"

I am inclined to take it to somewhere else and get it realigned...Unless of course the guy in you guys opinion is close enough.

Any feedback, advice or suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

 

If your "Moog 3 degree camber adjustment plates" are at their limit, then you might want to check if there are more adjustable plates.

Looking at the camber for L & R, it appears there was adjustment done, as the L went from '-' camber to '+', while the R went from '-' to '+'. It does not appear that the adjustment limit of the MOOG parts have been reached.

Many many shops will not touch caster and camber, and limit their adjustment to toe.

A good tech will do the job right. Right being that 'out of limit' (RED) adjustments are corrected if the parts are adjustable, and they will try to get the specs to be close equal, side to side. Given you have adjustable parts, designed to do precise alignment, then being in the RED is a sign that someone didn't care. In MY opinion.

The toe was adjusted, as was the camber. Some shops will connect all the alignment devices, and get the 'before' readings. They'll then do a jounce & rebound test on the bumpers, causing the suspension to settle to a slightly different position, and record the 'after' readings. Fiddle with the toe, and alignment is done. Yeah, I am a cynic about alignments. Wonderful profit center, and you have to pay for all the computerized gadgets and wireless data transfer, or the mirrors and lasers. If you note the rear caster & camber, you seem to have independent suspension back there... the jounce test 'adjusted' the caster and camber of the rear axle... not, unless it is flexing. Even the rear end toe got changed...
Actually you should get decent wear with the tires less than 1 degree from vertical. (camber setting) The question is do you get wander and difficulty tracking when on a road with a raised center for water runoff. Camber can get the steering squirrely on a road that is not flat. If it tracks well, you should be ok. I'd prefer closer to the 'optimum', but cannot really say if it is enough out to matter. I do think they should adjust it out of RED. IMO.
tom

 

Well Tom the caster plates are really close to 12 o'clock so I assume not much of the 3% adjustment is being used.

" If you note the rear caster & camber, you seem to have independent suspension back there... the jounce test 'adjusted' the caster and camber of the rear axle... not, unless it is flexing. Even the rear end toe got changed..."

Did not even notice that the rear had changed...Never looked at it since it is a fixed axle. Got a chuckle out of the "independent suspension back there"

Maybe it had a Dukes of Hazzard, General Lee, feeling kinda froggie type life before I bought it. I will be replacing the rear end (pinion bearing is screaming). Might be the axle bearing I am hearing and not the pinion bearing. Seal was leaking when I got it. I replaced the seal along with a repair sleeve and the seal in it looked brand new. Magnetic fill plug had tons of metal on it and the gear oil looked fresh.

I took it to a couple of shops and showed them the print out. One guy of course told me that it was bad and I needed to have him put it on his machine and realign it ASAP for $89.99. Another guy told me that it was not that bad and that he could get it on his machine and not be able to get it any better.

Really appreciate your help Tom....Thank You !!! I totally missed it and if not for you would never even thought about the rear. Both guys either did not snap that the rear had changed or did not saying anything about it. Need to check out the spring perches, bushing's and all that business.

Any opinion on the energy suspension bushing kit ??? Not much more than Dorman or Dayton.

Thanks again...Charlie

 

You have no model or year information in your post or your signature or ???

The older models with twin I-beam used cams to diddle with the camber & caster. Camber by dialing the offset cone, thus moving the pivot point for the ball joint 'stem'. Caster by choosing 'front' or 'rear' placement. Not a fun thing to do, as I understand the lower has to be removed before the upper(ball joint) can be removed and the 'adjuster' installed.
The A-arm style camber would move the 'pivot shaft' that the inner bushings rode on, front and rear, inward or outward to adjust camber, and then move one end in/out to diddle with caster. Both move==camber, one end or the other==caster. (most I've seen on the upper A-arm)
I *think* you have twin I-beams. But won't bet a donut. They are difficult to adjust because of the above. Most shops won't want to touch caster or camber as it is so hard. If you have twin, leave it as is IF it doesn't pull or wander. Just now re-read, and suspect A-arms as you mention new arms & lower ball joints, so...
If you have A-arms, the adjustment depends on the 'kit' you buy, and I don't know anything about the details. Some use 'cam type' shafts, others use shims, and I don't know what works on a Ranger as I don't do this for a living, and have an OLD Ranger. If the MOOG is a plate that allows the upper control arm to move the pivot shaft in and out, and 'tilt' it, favoring one end or the other, then its limit is its limit. I'd have to see the part to know what it did.
If the factory or new arm bushings are in good condition, I wouldn't bother until the suspension got sloppy, and allowed the arms to wander more than normal. They look neat, but it's just $$ out the door for what?
tom

 

Well I just tried to enter a signature and avatar of marilyn,
with the make, model and year...no dice...guess I am doing something wrong...tried when I first registered and did not succeed.

It is a 2003 Mazda B2300 SE

The right side of the drivers side camber plate is turned to right to the 3 o'clock position.

 

The parts used make the ends of the upper A-arm move inward and outward. That will tilt the knuckle and thus the axle that the wheel is mounted and rotates on. Camber is thus changed, the tilt in or out of the wheel relative to vertical.
To keep caster as it was, both the front and rear adjusters are rotated the same amount.
To vary caster, one end is rotated more than the other, thus moving the opposite end of the A-arm forward or rearward. Just as you may hold your hand straight out flat, and flex left and right, the tip of the middle finger will move L & R. Doing that on an A-arm will change the virtual axis between the upper and lower ball joints(and the actual knuckle), moving it forward and backward, changing 'caster'.
Caster will help keep the suspension wanting to go straight. When rotated L or R, caster will move the axle from level, up on one side, down on the other. That movement is opposed by the weight of the vehicle, and will naturally help force the wheels back to the position where the axles are parallel to the ground(relatively).
Tilting the virtual axis increases or decreases the up/down motion when off center.
The adjusters installed, if not at their limit, should allow setting the camber to pretty darn close to the middle of the printout. It just takes time to loosen, adjust, tighten, and settle the suspension back on the wheels, joggled to get it to its 'liked' spot.
Take a look at the passenger side and note how the adjusters are set. As they rotate, they will move the axis of the control arm in or out. Yours is out a bit too much, into the RED. I don't know if they are at their limit, as I don't know the parts, but if 3degrees is the max +/-, then they should be adjustable to get that one back into the GREEN.
To do so, would involve loosening, rotating to pull the axis inward a smidge, and tightening. BOTH would be adjusted inward the same amount to keep caster as it was.
The labor part is just time it takes to loosen, move, tighten, settle and measure.
Dunno if this answers any question you have. To know the limit of the MOOG parts, you'd have to know where the offset was in relation to the square hole used to rotate the disk. It may not be offset at all, or may be in the middle or at max. Can't tell w/o looking at the exact part and figuring out where it is in its possible movement.