I went and cashed in my Autotrader Trade-In Marketplace and got more than the voucher due to the condition of the truck. Money deposited in my account and just got a deal set for a 17 f250 ordered and invoice pricing.
I have no idea what changed in the last year, but never had to go to these lengths to make a deal work out.

 

Sure, there is a bottom to the market on rates just like anything else. We do have to make money somewhere, so don't expect us not to make it on the truck AND not to make it on the rate. Like i said, find out what your banks rate is and let us meet/beat it. If you really care about a few hundred bucks your a bit off your rocker IMO. We're talking about very expensive vehicles and worrying over a few dollars is silly. Trust me, the dealer doesn't. We just consider you to be unreasonable and not worth our time.

 

Best rule of thumb for buyers is listed below. Doing this will make sure you are not taken advantage of:
1) if you have a trade, study the similar vehicles in your area and determine market price. Get your KBB, NADA trade and retail values. Get an Autrader Trade-in Marketplace price for yourself.
2) get trade value from your dealer if they don't honor Autotrader Trade-in Marketplace price. Go with who is better.
3) on replacement vehicle:
a) if new, know invoice price
b) if used, know market and know what you are willing to have as the final number
4) figure the math on the deal (count sales tax), and then determine what will be financed. Know your credit score, then shop interest rates to know what it should be. Determine payment using an amortization calculator online.
5) tell the dealer your deal, and interest rate and make it happen

By knowing your numbers ahead of time, you will not let dealers take advantage of you.

 

I fully agree with that list Cobra. I personally hate trades. I don't make anything off them and no one likes their real numbers. I love when a customer gets more than I offer them on the street.

 

I'm not to worried about a few hundred bucks but a few hundred here a few more there through each process sure adds up to money I could spend elsewhere. The more we know as the consumer the more we can make smart decisions on our purchases. Knowledge is power!

 

Exactly. When you see the above issue manifest itself into a $9k difference, there is a definite problem at the dealer. That was an absolute joke.

 

To the OP: What happened with your deal? Did you end up buying the truck?

 

Still debating between the 2017 or a leftover 2016... the discounts on the 2016 are insane right now...

 

Frantz - learned a lot from your posts, so thank you. But can we revisit this comment you made a while back in this thread?

Aren't all customers shopping customers? I wouldn't hire a landscaper/roofer/etc without getting 2-3 estimates, so why would I spend $70k at the first dealer I visit? And how else do you expect to earn my business if it's not about price?

I'm about to purchase a new SD, so I'm trying to understand the nuances of the game from the sales side...

 

thats exactly what we as customers should do shop around. i knew if i ever went to a dealer who had the exact truck i wanted before knowing i have the deal i would like it too much to walk away so i called and got prices which didn't waste my time or the sales managers time because most all of them told me right off the bat they would work on my deal on there down time which was fine by me.

there was even one salesperson who went above and beyond to help me out she tried really hard to get a dealer trade for me so she could make the sale but when she knew the dealer wasn't wanting to play with her she sent me their way with an offer sheet with an awesome deal and thats how i started my negotiating.

im not the greatest when getting a good deal but what i do is this.

I would call and directly ask for either the sales or general manager some were too busy to talk so they pass me along to a salesboy so i hang up and call the next guy because after its all said and done those are the guys who can give you the crazy deals. i came across dealers who wouldn't budge off msrp some even priced over msrp because they know there market. i ended up getting my deal from a place who didn't even advertise the truck online they focused more on the f-150 and other cars. even the finance guy who worked there for 15 years said my truck was the first super duty he ever did paperwork.

i don't know if i even made any good points with this post or i just rambled on but thats my experience

 

BLUF: The internet makes pricing too easy for any normal vehicle (buy and trade), the only thing you should consider shopping for is a good salesperson/dealer.

When you understand the industry (which takes more time than any of you ought to do, hence I try to share as much as possible), it's a complete and utter waste of time to shop for price. The internet has completely made price shopping a waste of time in 99% of cases (where folks have normal commonly traded stuff). So when you go in and tell the sales guy you want him to go over a car or truck and if his price is the best you'll be back, he knows your lying. First, his price won't be the best, and the other dealer will be able to beat it, because "best" isn't real. Secondly, the number of people who take our service for free and don't think twice about it is astounding. Folks argue about sales professionalism, but the truth is, consumers don't generally place a value on that, and once you have the information you need to make a choice you go with whoever is cheapest.

When I worked retail as my main job it really was the same, actually easy. You took someone who thought they were shopping and you turned them into a buyer. If you couldn't, you'd try to get them to be back in and just hope someone slimy didn't close them. But the majority of shoppers can be turned into buyers in a single visit if you do your job well. The outliers who really do want to walk around with notebooks will eventually buy too, but every single sales person who has worked in the industry more than a week won't waste much efforts on you, so actually you get WORSE service than someone who is "foolish" enough to buy at their first stop. We'd rather work our tail off to give a car away when we know we can close the deal than spend days going over details with someone who we know we have less than a 25% chance of doing business with. If you can train yourself to be a buyer who says no several times, you are likely to both get very good service and a very good deal. So, knowing this, from the sales persons perspective this is a good customer, and it's generally how we all shop for things ourselves. I'm buying farm equipment next year, it's going to be my first new stuff. I sent a request to a single dealer. AGCO, the parent company, actually reached out to me and passed it back to the dealer who I never heard from. I waited a month and then I reached out to a second dealer who same day got back to me, offered me a few options, and gave me a nice back and forth email conversation about some questions I had. I will not be seeking an alternative price, and I found the discount they offered to be in line with ones I see with a quick google search. It's not the best discount, but I have been happy so far with their service and sales process. That's worth something to me.

Price is indeed an important factor in earning someones business. Again, keeping in mind that I mostly deal with commercial sales I do have greater flexibility than the avg sales person, but I'm also dealing with company leaders, not just dads buying fusions and F150s for camping. There is a higher profit margin in commercial units than little cars. I generally quote everyone invoice. It gives me a few hundred bucks to work with, but I also instantly can know if its the right truck or not. If you come in and expect thousands off my first offer, or even a thousand, I call you out on it, find a cheaper truck that does work. Then the only two options are to accept the cheaper truck or get the truck you need. So for me, pricing is really really simple. Another dealer can beat my price, sure. But if I make sure I get your company the trucks you need, at very reasonable cost, and you get the feeling I'm trying to make a business of looking out for your best interest, are you really going to shop me? Half my business last month was repeat or referral, and I don't think any of them shopped me at all. If someone ever does shop me, the difference will be less than a grand unless they have an aged unit. I deliver to several customers, which is a big time saver if you don't live near a dealership. Service departments aren't perfect, and if you have a problem and tell me about it, I go make sure it's right. I take an active interest in how you use your truck. Asking questions that both make sure I'm selling you a truck that does the job. I have tried to build my business with information, honesty, and fair enough pricing that it's not worth your time go shop around and risk getting something wrong. It's too easy to sign up for a contract on a truck you thought had what you wanted only to find out it doesn't. You saved a few hundred bucks buy just spend $50k on the wrong truck. Shopping causes more problems than savings for most customers because they generally only focus on price and aren't able to get enough of the true big picture. Shopping customers often get caught in the weeds, and we are able to see from our perspective many times when "shoppers" actually spent a good amount more than our offer because they got confused and talked into something that wasn't quite what they thought. Dealers that advertise the lowest prices, generally have the most expensive banks and warranty's and such. So it's possible to work a deal and beat the system, that's simply not how most of us operate, and again, if there is a mistake made, no one is going to go to bat for you and make it right.

I'd say with landscapers are even more foolish to shop price. Assuming you're on the ball, have no trade, and just want a truck ordered to your specs, every dealer is selling the same commodity with only a difference in customer service. Landscapers who are cheapest rarely offer the best service and materials, and that is what you're paying for in a much larger percentage. I'd rather find a landscaper with a good rep and sit with them and iron out a deal. Same principles likely apply that they'll work harder and give you more if they know they have your business. If they know you're shopping they have to think of ways to uphold their name and take shortcuts, rather than having honest discussions about options with you.

 

More great insight Frantz. Thanks buddy...

 

I can't seem to find just the truck I'm wanting and when spending 70-80k I don't want to settle. Bet thing I can figure would be to order. Since all the ones on the lot are still new, would I get roughly the same off msrp for an ordered truck?

Looking for a heavily loaded 450

Brett

Franz---thanks for all the real talk and glimpse into the workings of a dealer

 

I call BS on the original poster! You never cashed in with the Autotrader Trade-In voucher. Your Raptor is still on craigslist and you lowered the price yesterday (November 1).

https://akroncanton.craigslist.org/cto/5828015199.html

I'm sure you will delete the craigslist ad after reading this!

And I can tell you what changed in the value of a Raptor over the last year, its called Supply and Demand. They did not produce Raptors last year, so the used ones were in demand. Well guess what, now they are a producing them and yours is now from prior generation; therefore the value has dropped.

I wouldn't typically call people out online, but you deserved it with some of your responses to some very credible members on here.

 

You should be able to work the same deal on an order, though not all dealers want to work on that. To be completely frank, F450 loaded customers tend to be some of the biggest PIA, but hopefully you can do better! They tend to be a pain because they are specific (deservingly so for the cost), but then will go to several dealers for pricing. It's quite a bit of work to lose business over a few bucks. When someone like that comes in I politely tell them I'm not interested. However, if they say they want to order the truck and work out a deal today, I'll give them a heck of a good deal because I don't have to worry about paying interest, replacing batteries, or other "sit on the lot" expenses. It should be super easy to order!

Tips on an order:
Negotiate the offset from invoice. The amount you'll pay for the truck above or below invoice (on a loaded F450 there is plenty to work here, I won't get into pricing because it does vary by state with all the fees and what not). Rebates are not part of the negotiation. In fact, with an order you can get the improved rebates when the truck gets shipped if they are higher than when you ordered you can be eligible for them.

If you have a trade, realize they have to assume what the value will be in a few months, not today. The nice thing is, if you don't use the truck too often, or can do without it, you can sell it for more in the mean time, knowing what the bottom of the market is. Just know if trade value comes off before taxes in your state.

There may or may not be a cash deposit requested. You're asking the dealership to take a very expensive risk and have a 80k truck sit on their lot if you walk. Others looking for $80k trucks are like yourselves and won't want to make too many compromises, so rather than having five quick selling Focus cars, they have one big specific truck. If you have a good deal, they are taking this risk in hopes of a few bucks plus whatever they get from the bank for arranging the financing. Be mindful of that.