Towing On the Side
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 177
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Towing On the Side
I'm sure this has been addressed before but hey...
I'm full time engineer with a 7.3 F-250 and a 25 foot goose neck flatbed. I was thinking about trying to do some hauling on nights and weekends. The truck and trailer doesn't get used like it used to on the farm before I graduated. I wanted to know if any of you have tried this and what I will get involved with. I really don't want to deal with the USDOT numbers and similar licensing if i can help it. BTW I'm in PA.
I'm full time engineer with a 7.3 F-250 and a 25 foot goose neck flatbed. I was thinking about trying to do some hauling on nights and weekends. The truck and trailer doesn't get used like it used to on the farm before I graduated. I wanted to know if any of you have tried this and what I will get involved with. I really don't want to deal with the USDOT numbers and similar licensing if i can help it. BTW I'm in PA.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,495
Likes: 7
From: Not as far west as I want
Anything over 10,000 pounds you're going to need DOT numbers etc. Crossing stage lines for sure you're going to need everything. If you're only playing in PA it might be different, it depends on what the state adopts.
The 10,000 pounds is based on weight ratings on the combination you're pulling. Or single unit. Looks like you also need to register the states PUC and you're going to need cargo insurance.
If you want to run legal, you're going to need more than a DOT number.
The 10,000 pounds is based on weight ratings on the combination you're pulling. Or single unit. Looks like you also need to register the states PUC and you're going to need cargo insurance.
If you want to run legal, you're going to need more than a DOT number.
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,392
Likes: 22
From: very South Texas
across state lines.. DOT... fines and punishment are Harsh.
doing for friends, people in your town. maybe OK,
NO advertising .
check your insurance.... will they permit you to move, tow, carry for friends.? and cover load.
doing for friends, people in your town. maybe OK,
NO advertising .
check your insurance.... will they permit you to move, tow, carry for friends.? and cover load.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,495
Likes: 7
From: Not as far west as I want
The 10,000 pound is either weight ratings. Individual or combination. If weight rating cannot be determined then scale weight is used.
If you're going to do this, spend some time contacting your state police's motor carrier section and public utilities commission.
You're going to find that cargo insurance is expensive. Compliance is not that hard, if you're organized.
If you want to avoid a bunch of the headaches, find someone to lease on with. They handle the paperwork and drug testing program. Often they pay the cargo insurance. You supply the pickup and trailer. The trick is finding someone who will work with a part timer.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 177
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I don't know why the government has to make everything so difficult. Where I grew up everyone had the number of the local high school kid with the old 7.3 and a gooseneck. His truck was tagged as a class 2 and no one cared. The cops didn't pay him any mind because he was just trying to make a couple bucks. I have a truck and a trailer and don't need any licensing or insurance other than normal to haul my own hay but if it is the neighbors now it is illegal. I understand the need for it for full timers but what about those of us just doing it for a little spending money. It should have a threshold like so many other things. ie: you only need a dealer licence if you sell more than 5 cars a year. Well I guess I can advertise truck hauling (delivering wood pellets and stuff like that...) as I would be under 10,000. And just do gooseneck for friends.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,495
Likes: 7
From: Not as far west as I want
I don't like being told want to do. But some one screwed up... it happens enough that regulations become a needed thing. Whether it is there to protect the customer or the person sharing the roads. And then, they needed a system in place to track both good and bad operators.
You do well, run legal and take care of your equipment you get better loads and insurance premiums go down. You can't, and he score reflects that.
You do well, run legal and take care of your equipment you get better loads and insurance premiums go down. You can't, and he score reflects that.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2012
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Well chuck, there has been some kids that have been shut down and told they needed to have a food service licence.
Well there is no way I can afford a 6-12 thousand dollar insurance bill with a couple of short hauls in the evening after work. So instead of providing a service for guys that need a few bales of hay hauled and don't need insurance coverage at a lower price and help me pay off the trailer I needed for my personal needs my equipment sits idle and the farmer looses money. Seems like everyone looses. Regulation cannot and will not replace personal responsibility.
Well there is no way I can afford a 6-12 thousand dollar insurance bill with a couple of short hauls in the evening after work. So instead of providing a service for guys that need a few bales of hay hauled and don't need insurance coverage at a lower price and help me pay off the trailer I needed for my personal needs my equipment sits idle and the farmer looses money. Seems like everyone looses. Regulation cannot and will not replace personal responsibility.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
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From: Angier, NC
If you aredoing this for money then commercial rules apply.
So if thehay is yours and can prove it BOS/BOL (bill of sale / bill of laden) then youshould be ok. If you cant prove what is on the trailer is yours you could belooking at fines and put OOS (out of service) till you get the needed permitsor someone else to haul the load for you.
As for the rules and you think you don't need to follow them you would be taking money out of the pockets of the people that are doing this the right way and is the only thing they do for a living.
Dave ----
So if thehay is yours and can prove it BOS/BOL (bill of sale / bill of laden) then youshould be ok. If you cant prove what is on the trailer is yours you could belooking at fines and put OOS (out of service) till you get the needed permitsor someone else to haul the load for you.
As for the rules and you think you don't need to follow them you would be taking money out of the pockets of the people that are doing this the right way and is the only thing they do for a living.
Dave ----
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,495
Likes: 7
From: Not as far west as I want
If you aredoing this for money then commercial rules apply.
So if thehay is yours and can prove it BOS/BOL (bill of sale / bill of laden) then youshould be ok. If you cant prove what is on the trailer is yours you could belooking at fines and put OOS (out of service) till you get the needed permitsor someone else to haul the load for you.
As for the rules and you think you don't need to follow them you would be taking money out of the pockets of the people that are doing this the right way and is the only thing they do for a living.
Dave ----
So if thehay is yours and can prove it BOS/BOL (bill of sale / bill of laden) then youshould be ok. If you cant prove what is on the trailer is yours you could belooking at fines and put OOS (out of service) till you get the needed permitsor someone else to haul the load for you.
As for the rules and you think you don't need to follow them you would be taking money out of the pockets of the people that are doing this the right way and is the only thing they do for a living.
Dave ----
Now, hauling hay you no not need operating authority (MC number.) Hauling your own stuff is another instance of not need operating authority. Operating beyond the scope of your authority is an out of service violation. Operating after being placed out of service is a $10,000 fine. In my state it can also be a year in jail.
The regulations are complex and often confusing. However, running illegal will hurt far worse. You get fined and shut down roadside then the state/Feds roll in and really rake it on. The basic fine from the FMCSA starts at $2,500 and goes up from there.
While the op might not like the answers we are giving. There's a reason. If he wants to be legit, great. Otherwise be prepared to take your medicine. It is far, far easier to be compliant. It looks better for the industry and keeps the playing field more level.
If you want to avoid all the headache, find someone who will hire you part time to drive their truck and trailer.
FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 30,912
Likes: 4,123
From: Angier, NC
My point was it is ok to haul YOUR OWN stuff but anything else hauled for MONEY it turns in to commercial hauling and the rules change. Be it a PU with a goose neck trailer or and 18 wheel big rig.
If he gets pulled over how will he prove it is his with no BOL? How long do you think DOT can keep him sitting on the side of the road getting them this information?
Then when they find out it is not his as you said look out for the fines!
What would he do at weight stations? So they don't come after him he should stop. If over loaded they will pull he aside and look over EVERYTHING!
Just pointing out it is not just that easy to hook up and go for extra money!
Dave ----
If he gets pulled over how will he prove it is his with no BOL? How long do you think DOT can keep him sitting on the side of the road getting them this information?
Then when they find out it is not his as you said look out for the fines!
What would he do at weight stations? So they don't come after him he should stop. If over loaded they will pull he aside and look over EVERYTHING!
Just pointing out it is not just that easy to hook up and go for extra money!
Dave ----
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 412
From: Washington Coast
You can just thank the bone head that did it wrong and then he had trouble and hurt/killed someone else or himself and some people lost money besides the insurance company.
Knee jerk response and why most of laws that override common sense are written.
Knee jerk response and why most of laws that override common sense are written.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,495
Likes: 7
From: Not as far west as I want
Most of it is more than knee jerk. Sometimes, in some cases it is. Often it isn't.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,157
Likes: 7,991
From: Texas
I'm sure this has been addressed before but hey...
I'm full time engineer with a 7.3 F-250 and a 25 foot goose neck flatbed. I was thinking about trying to do some hauling on nights and weekends. The truck and trailer doesn't get used like it used to on the farm before I graduated. I wanted to know if any of you have tried this and what I will get involved with. I really don't want to deal with the USDOT numbers and similar licensing if i can help it. BTW I'm in PA.
I'm full time engineer with a 7.3 F-250 and a 25 foot goose neck flatbed. I was thinking about trying to do some hauling on nights and weekends. The truck and trailer doesn't get used like it used to on the farm before I graduated. I wanted to know if any of you have tried this and what I will get involved with. I really don't want to deal with the USDOT numbers and similar licensing if i can help it. BTW I'm in PA.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,495
Likes: 7
From: Not as far west as I want
My take.....you mention "on the farm"....most states have an AG. Exemption. If you are just hauling hay for the neighnor, and are within 100 miles of your home base, within your home state, and your truck is licensed "Farm Truck"; it is highly doubtful that any DOT people are going to mess with you! And how will they PROVE whether the hay is yours or not..... You just went over to Joe Farmer's and bought a load and are taking it to where the cows need it. But, it will need to look like you are hauling ag commodities...it will not work very good for you if you have the neighbors household goods loaded up, if you get the idea! But, be careful, because there are truckers out there that make their living hauling ag commodities, and they might give yiu more hassle than the law will!!
MAP-21 is tricky. The best thing the original poster can do is dicusss this with the state police's motor carrier division. I can answer the federal questions. However, what each state adopts varies greatly. This is why it is best to visit with your home state.