So my truck had been puking from the degas bottle for the last........see, 2 years. It has gradually gotten worse. Every time I take it into the dealer, they run a pressure test and a road test and they say no puking. Coolant holds the pressure test. Problem is, as soon as I tow something, I loose about 1-2 gals of coolant. It's to the point now, where I just got home from towing my commuter car home, and lost 2 gals of coolant.

I shouldn't be having problems by pulling 5k lbs. problem is, I take it in, and same thing. No puking, holds pressure.

Im tired of the back and forth. I even offered to take the truck in with a trailer, and maybe go for a ride, but they say they can't accommodate that.

Any ideas on how to attack this, or get resolved? I'm so tired of not being able to drive my truck the way it was intended to, because it won't hold the coolant.

Truck is stock 08 F450, 93k.

 

Go to another dealer. It looks like that one is trying to avoid working on your truck.

 

Here is a TSB I think your truck fits it. But the first simple thing I'd do is change the pressure cap on your bottle, it may be faulty.

TSB 09-8-3

05/04/09

COOLANT LOSS - 6.0L
FORD:
2003-2005 Excursion
2003-2007 F-Super Duty
2004-2009 E-Series

This article supersedes TSB 08-11-3 to update the Service Procedure, which includes the release of a new Oil Cooler Service Kit. The Oil Cooler Service Kit includes a serviceable heat exchanger, which is to be used to service a restricted oil cooler. Replacement of the entire Oil Cooler assembly due to flow restriction is no longer necessary.
ISSUE
Some 2003-2007 F-Super Duty, 2003-2005 Excursion and 2004-2009 E-Series vehicles, all equipped with a 6.0L engine, may exhibit:



^

Coolant venting from the degas bottle cap



^

Internal engine coolant leak (possibly resulting in a hydro-locked engine)



^

White smoke from tail pipe



^

Coolant loss



^

Lacks power due to overheating



^

No cabin heat


The conditions typically occur when operating the vehicle under a load such as trailer towing, uphill driving, or both.
ACTION
Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

Following the Service Procedure steps will aid in isolating the source of the coolant leak condition by testing and repairing as necessary the following: degas bottle and pressure cap integrity, exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) cooler for internal leaks and the oil cooler for coolant flow restrictions. All vehicles will be required to have the cooling system flushed with Motorcraft(R) Engine Cooling System Iron Cleaner. For vehicles that are diagnosed to have leaking head gaskets, you will be required to test the turbocharger for causing an over-boost condition, which may be the cause of the head gasket failure.
NOTE PLEASE REFER TO THE WARRANTY AND POLICY MANUAL, SECTION 3, FOR WARRANTY IMPLICATIONS OF REPAIRS RELATED TO VEHICLE MODIFICATIONS.
NOTE A NEW OIL COOLER SERVICE KIT, WHICH INCLUDES A SERVICEABLE HEAT EXCHANGER, IS TO BE USED TO SERVICE A RESTRICTED OIL COOLER. REPLACEMENT OF THE ENTIRE OIL COOLER ASSEMBLY DUE TO FLOW RESTRICTION IS NO LONGER NECESSARY.

Prior to making any repairs, verify the coolant level is not overfull. The correct cold coolant fill level is at the MIN line of the degas bottle cold. Overfilled coolant levels will cause coolant to vent from the degas bottle cap.

Complete All Steps In Order As Outlined (Steps 1-4 Must Be Performed On A Cold Engine)









1.

Inspect the cooling system as per the Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 303-03 for external leaks, oil or fuel contamination, and/or diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs). If external coolant leaks, oil or fuel contamination of coolant, and/or DTC(s) P0480 / P0528 are found, do not continue with this procedure. Refer to WSM, Section 303-03, Powertrain Controls/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) or any other applicable articles as needed.



2.

Test the degas bottle and pressure cap for proper operation of the pressure cap and its seal to the degas bottle:



a.

Do not remove the pressure cap.











b.

Install a pressure tester in-line with the degas bottle hose using Rotunda 014-R1068 adapter. (Figure 1)




c.

Pressurize the cooling system by using slow and steady pump action on the tester pump handle. Quick or rapid pumps on the tester handle may cause false readings. Pressurize the system until the gauge pressure levels off, between 12-18 psi (83-124 kPa).



d.

The degas cap should release between 12-18 psi (83-124 kPa) allowing the pressure to level off.



(1)

If the degas cap releases with less than 12 psi (83 kPa), replace the cap.



(2)

If degas cap was replaced or held pressure, apply pressure to 12-18 psi (83-124kPa) and wait 30 seconds for pressure to stabilize. If pressure holds, go to Step 2e. If pressure drops, continue to next step.



(3)

If the gauge pressure drops:



(a)

Apply soapy water around the cap to find any leaks.



(b)

Check the degas bottle fill neck lip for nicks or cracks. Small nicks can be removed by light sanding with fine emery cloth. Repair or replace as necessary and re-pressure test.



(c)

Replace the pressure cap, if leaks are still present and pressure cap was not already replaced in a previous step.



(d)

Pressurize the system and test again, if leaks are still present replace the degas bottle, Refer to WSM, Section 303-03.



e.

Record the degas cap holding pressure for later reference, go to Step 3.



CAUTION COOLANT ENTERING ANY COMBUSTION CHAMBER MAY CAUSE A HYDRO LOCK CONDITION. EVACUATE INTAKE PASSAGES AND COMBUSTION CHAMBERS OF ALL LIQUIDS USING A SUCTION DEVICE. REMOVE GLOW PLUGS (REFER TO WSM, SECTION 303-07B) TO ASSIST IN VENTING LIQUID FROM COMBUSTION CHAMBERS, BEFORE ENGINE IS STARTED.



3.

EGR Cooler Leak Test On Vehicle:

NOTE




NOTE :

A LEAKING EGR COOLER CAN CAUSE EXCESSIVE WHITE SMOKE, INTERNAL COOLANT LOSS (WHICH MAY RESULT IN A HYDRO-LOCKED ENGINE), AND/OR PRESSURIZED EXHAUST GASES ENTERING THE COOLING SYSTEM. THIS MAY RESULT IN VENTING FROM THE DEGAS BOTTLE CAP, AND APPEAR SIMILAR TO A LEAKING HEAD GASKET.




a.

Install RADKITPLUSA 078-00592 on the degas tank.



b.

Regulate shop air to 100 psi (690 kPa) and apply vacuum to cooling system until gauge stops decreasing or 20 inches of vacuum is reached. Degas bottle coolant level must be set to MIN line with a cold engine to allow sufficient space for vacuum.



c.

Hold vacuum and allow vacuum to stabilize (allow 60 seconds for vacuum to stabilize).



(1)

If vacuum holds steady over 15 minutes go to Step 5.



(2)

If vacuum does not hold steady over 15 minutes go to Step 4.





4.

EGR Cooler Leak Test Off Vehicle:



a.

Remove the EGR cooler from the engine following Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 303-08.











b.

Install cooler block-off tools and pressurize the EGR cooler to 30 psi (207 kPa). Fasten the inlet and outlet port block-off plates using standard bolts, nuts and washers. (Figure 2)

NOTE FOR VERY SMALL LEAKS, IT MAY BE REQUIRED THAT EGR COOLER REMAIN SUBMERGED FOR UP TO 15 MINUTES TO AID IN LEAK IDENTIFICATION. THIS TIME IS NEEDED TO ALLOW SMALL LEAKS TO DISPLACE ENOUGH WATER FROM THE COOLANT PASSAGES TO BECOME EVIDENT.









c.

Submerge the EGR cooler horizontally in the water, with the coolant ports pointing upward. Manipulate the cooler under water to purge all trapped air from the internal coolant passages. (Figure 3)



d.

Inspect for continuous bubbles escaping from the coolant ports.



(1)

If continuous bubbles identify a leak, replace the EGR cooler and service the oil cooler with an Oil Cooler Kit. Refer to the WSM, Sections 303-01C and 303-08 for additional information and go to Step 7.



(2)

If bubbles do not identify a leak, an external leak was missed in Step 1. Install the original EGR cooler and exit this procedure. This procedure should not be performed until all external cooling system leaks have been repaired.





5.

Road Test For Restricted Oil Cooler - Setup and Observations:



a.

Install integrated diagnostic system (IDS), select engine coolant temperature (ECT) and engine oil temperature (EOT) PID's on IDS Datalogger.



b.

Carefully drive the vehicle at wide open throttle (WOT) / high load to achieve maximum boost.


NOTE FOR ACCURATE TEST RESULTS, ECT TEMPERATURE MUST BE GREATER THAN 190 0F (88 °C) WHEN MEASURING THE ECT AND EOT MAXIMUM TEMPERATURE DIFFERENTIAL.
NOTE PERFORMING THIS TEST STEP OUT OF SEQUENCE CAN RESULT IN INACCURATE TEST RESULTS. THIS CAN BE CAUSED BY A LEAKING EGR COOLER ALLOWING (HOT) COMBUSTION GASES TO ENTER THE ENGINE COOLANT AND ARTIFICIALLY RAISING ECT READINGS.



c.

Observe ECT and EOT PID's on IDS Datalogger. EOT maximum temperature differential might occur at throttle tip-out.



(1)

If EOT is within 15 °F (8.4 °C) degrees of the ECT, go to Step 7.



(2)

If EOT exceeds ECT by 15 °F (8.4 °C) or more at any time during the test, go to Step 6.





6.

Service Oil Cooler and Pressure Test EGR Cooler Off Vehicle:



a.

Service oil cooler with an Oil Cooler Kit per WSM, Sections 303-01C and 303-08.



b.

EGR cooler leak test - off vehicle:



(1)

Remove the EGR cooler from the engine following Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 303-08.



(2)

Install cooler block-off tools and pressurize the EGR cooler to 30 psi (207 kPa). Fasten the inlet and outlet port block-off plates using standard bolts, nuts and washers. (Figure 2)



NOTE FOR VERY SMALL LEAKS, IT MAY BE REQUIRED THAT EGR COOLER REMAIN SUBMERGED FOR UP TO 15 MINUTES TO AID IN LEAK IDENTIFICATION. THIS TIME IS NEEDED TO ALLOW SMALL LEAKS TO DISPLACE ENOUGH WATER FROM THE COOLANT PASSAGES TO BECOME EVIDENT.



(3)

Submerge the EGR cooler horizontally in the water, with the coolant ports pointing upward. Manipulate the cooler under water to purge all trapped air from the internal coolant passages. Inspect for continuous bubbles escaping from the coolant ports. (Figure 3)



(a)

If continuous bubbles identify a leak, replace the EGR cooler. Refer to the WSM, Sections 303-01 C and 303-08 for additional information and go to Step 7.



(b)

If bubbles do not identify a leak, install the original EGR cooler and go to Step 7.





7.

Road Test For Leaking Head Gaskets - Setup And Observations:










a.

Install the vehicle measurement module (VMM) pressure vacuum transducer (PVT), or Rotunda Pressure Adapter Kit 014-00761, or equivalent. (Figure 4)

CAUTION CAREFULLY RELEASE THE COOLING SYSTEM PRESSURE WHILE REMOVING DEGAS CAP.



b.

Carefully release the cooling system pressure, leaving the tester in place.



c.

Seal pressure bleed.



d.

Drive the vehicle at wide open throttle (WOT) I high load I to achieve maximum boost.



e.

Observe whether the cooling system pressure exceeds the holding pressure noted in Step 2e.



f.

Check for coolant venting through the degas bottle cap by listening for a hissing noise.



(1)

If the cooling system pressure is less than the holding pressure noted in Step 2, go to Step 10.



(2)

If the cooling system pressure exceeds the holding pressure noted in Step 2, and/or the degas bottle cap continuously vents with loaded engine, go to Step 8.





8.

Turbocharger Over-boost Tests

NOTE OVER-BOOST CONDITIONS WILL RESULT IN EXCESSIVE CYLINDER PRESSURES, AND MAY BE CAUSED BY IRREGULAR RESPONSE IN VARIABLE GEOMETRY TURBOCHARGER (VGT), OR BY A BIASED EXHAUST BACK PRESSURE (EBP) SENSOR SIGNAL. EXCESSIVE CYLINDER PRESSURES MAY LEAD TO HEAD GASKET FAILURE.



a.

Remove the EBP sensor wire seal connector and inspect the weather seal. If the seal is missing, replace the connector and EBP sensor.



b.

Perform both turbocharger tests in IDS by going to the tests as follows and performing the on-screen prompts:



(1)

Tool Box > Powertrain > Air Management > Turbo Test > Turbo Boost Test



(2)

Tool Box > Powertrain > Air Management > Turbo Test > VVT Test


NOTE FOR 2003 AND EARLY 2004 MODEL YEAR VEHICLES, PERFORM PC/ED PPT STEPS KA9 AND KA10 FOR VVT TEST TO DETERMINE VGT VANE OPERATION.



(a)

If either test indicates turbocharger repair or replacement is required, refer to the WSM, Section 303-01D General Procedures for Turbocharger Reconditioning procedures. Turbocharger service must be performed while the turbocharger is off the vehicle for head gasket service in Step 9.



(b)

If both tests indicate the turbocharger is operating properly, go to Step 9.




9.

Head Gasket Replacement:










a.

Replace the head gaskets. Refer to WSM, Section 303-01 C for head removal installation, cleaning and flatness measurement procedures. Refer to Cylinder Head Gasket Identification Chart located at the end of this procedure. (Figure 5)



b.

Use other applicable TSB for proper cylinder head identification.




10.

Vehicle Assembly:

NOTE FAILURE TO PROPERLY FLUSH THE COOLING SYSTEM WITH MOTORCRAFT(R) ENGINE COOLING SYSTEM IRON CLEANER (VC-9) FOLLOWING WSM PROCEDURES MAY RESULT IN REPEAT EGR COOLER AND OIL COOLER FAILURES.



a.

Flush the cooling and heater system together using the WSM, Section 303-03 Cooling System Flushing - Diesel Engine procedure. Engine coolant quality can be affected by combustion gases, operation at low system pressure or exposure to excessive system temperatures. Engine coolant degradation characteristics include silicate drop out (clouding) and reduced corrosion protection. Rust flakes and silicate that combine in the system might collect in the oil cooler and be mistaken as casting sand.



b.

Change engine oil and oil filter.








Parts Block

OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES: 07-10-4, 05-2-5
WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage
IMPORTANT : Warranty coverage limits/policies are not altered by a TSB. Warranty coverage limits are determined by the identified causal part.
OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME

090803A 2003-2007 Super Duty, 1.3 Hrs.
2003-2005 Excursion 6.0L,
2004-2009 Econoline 6.0L:
Includes Time To:
Pressure Test The Cooling
System Several Times;
Test The EGR Cooler On
Vehicle, Replace The
Degas Cap If Required,
Sand Degas Bottle Fill
Neck To Remove Small
Nicks If Required, Install
IDS/PVT, Road Test(s)
And Check For DTCs (May
Be Claimed With
Operations B, C, D, E, F,
G and H)

090803B 2004-2007 Super Duty, 6.1 Hrs.
2004-2005 Excursion 6.0L:
Includes Time To: Remove
And Leak Check EGR
Cooler Off Engine,
Replace EGR Cooler And
Oil Cooler If Required
(May Be Claimed With
Operations A, C, D, E, F,
G And H)

090803B 2004-2009 Econoline 6.0L: 7.8 Hrs.
Includes Time To: Remove
And Leak Check EGR
Cooler Off Engine,
Replace EGR Cooler And
Oil Cooler If Required May
Be Claimed With
Operations A, C, D, E, F,
G And H

090803B 2003 Super Duty, 2003 5.5 Hrs.
Excursion 6.0L: Includes
Time To: Remove And
Leak Check EGR Cooler
Off Engine, Replace EGR
Cooler And Oil Cooler If
Required (May Be Claimed
With Operations A, C, D,
E, F, G And H)

090803C 2003-2007 Super Duty, 0.5 Hr.
2003-2005 Excursion,
2004-2009 Econoline 6.0L:
Replace The Degas Bottle,
May Be Claimed With
Operations A, B, D, E, F,
G And H

090803D 2003-2004 Super Duty, 15.0
2003 Excursion 6.0L: Hrs.
Includes Time To: Test
And/Or Replace EBP
Sensor And Connector If
Required, Perform Turbo
Boost Test, Replace Head
Gaskets, May Be Claimed
With Operations A, B, C,
E, F, G And H

090803D 2004-2009 Econoline 6.0L: 21.1
Includes Time To: Test Hrs.
And/Or Replacing EBP
Sensor And Connector If
Required, Perform Turbo
Boost Test, Replace Head
Gaskets (May Be Claimed
With Operations A, B, C,
E, F, G And H)

090803D 2005-2007 Super Duty, 15.5
2004-2005 Excursion 6.0L: Hrs.
Includes Time To: Test
And/Or Replace EBP
Sensor And Connector If
Required, Perform Turbo
Boost Test, Replace Head
Gaskets (May Be Claimed
With Operations A, B, C,
E, F, G And H)

090803E 2003-2007 Super Duty, 1.5 Hrs.
2003-2005 Excursion 6.0L:
Remove Glow Plugs To
Vent Liquid From
Combustion Chambers,
Should Only Be Claimed If
Engine Is Found To Be
Hydro-locked (May Be
Claimed With Operations
A, B, C, D, F, G And H)

090803E 2004-2009 Econoline 6.0L: 2.4 Hrs.
Remove Glow Plugs To
Vent Liquid From
Combustion Chambers
Should Only Be Claimed If
Engine Is Found To Be
Hydro-locked (May Be
Claimed With Operations
A, B, C, D, F, G And H)

090803F 2003-2007 Super Duty, 2.1 Hrs.
2003-2005 Excursion 6.0L:
Includes Time To: Flush
And Fill Cooling System,
Change Engine Oil And
Filter (May Be Claimed
With Operations A, B, C,
D, E, G And H)

090803F 2004-2009 Econoline 6.0L: 3.0 Hrs.
Includes Time To: Flush
And Fill Cooling System,
Change Engine Oil And
Filter (May be Claimed
With Operations A, B, C,
D, E, G And H)

090803G 2003-2007 Super Duty, 1.0 Hr.
2003-2005 Excursion,
2004-2009 Econoline 6.0L:
Includes Time To:
Re-condition Turbocharger
(May Be Claimed With
Operations A, B, C, D, E,
F And H)

090803H 2003-2007 Super Duty, 0.3 Hr.
2003-2005 Excursion,
2004-2009 Econoline 6.0L:
Includes Time To: Replace
Turbocharger Center
Housing Rotating
Assembly (May Be
Claimed With Operations
A, B, C, D, E, F And G)
DEALER CODING CONDITION
BASIC PART NO. CODE
6A642 55
__________________

 

Does this only apply to the 6.0 or does it carry to my 6.4 engine?

 

I would get a scangauge II, look at your temps, oil and engine cooling.
it will help you diagnose and might save you time and money.

 

i fought this issue from day one with this truck. every year, i would pull my 5th wheel up north, blow coolant, overheat. the dealership performed all the tsb's over the years, several head gasket, etc. 283 service days during the warranty!
Should have given it back like everyone else, but i just couldn't do it.
The warranty ran out at 100,000 miles, at 100503 miles, it did it again.
I ordered the head stud, and egr removal kit. The dealership performed the work.
Never had an issue again. 235,000 miles, and just getting broke in.

 

They ran a block test and they say it's not the heads. Tested the egr coolers and they say they are holding. Purged and pressure tested the cooking system and they say it all holds. Tested the radiAtor and it holds pressure to. Final they say the fan clutch was malfunctioning, so they are replacing that. I doubt that would cause puking........any thoughts???? While doing that, What maintenance items should I replace? Belt? Tensioner?

 

Glafond,

Dealer saying after this repair, they don't know what else to do. I have read elsewhere and also heard you mention, giving the truck back to ford. How does that work? If I have a truck I can't use, and a warranty that can't fix it, I'm ready to give it back and possibly get another one, or a 6.7. How do you start the process or giving it back?

 

You start the process by doing a Google search on "Lemon law" in your particular state. Every state is a little different.

Also, please keep in mind that it is against FTE guidelines to "discuss or organize legal actions".

 

Yah....I thought it was more of a friendly issue where ford had made a provision knowing about these particular cases.

It seems complicated, and anything "law" means lawyers, and that means trouble.....thanks. I'll see what I can do

 

1000% this! I know that if someone with your issue came into our service department we would accommodate the request for a ride with the trailer attached.

Definitely, the lemon law is difficult though. Most dealers/manufacturers have more firepower than consumers in the lawyer department.

If you send the VIN over I would be happy to check on the application of the aforementioned TSB to your vehicle.

 

My local dealer told me they would be happy to replace the engine, when I come back with it blown up.
The dealer it's at right now I drive an hour each way. The other one is almost 2 hrs away.

 

That is a shame, we must be spoiled in FL because it seems like there is a dealer for nearly every manufacturer within a half hour drive. Take a look at the TSB's and let me know if you have any questions and I would be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. These TSB's are all of the TSB's pertaining to coolant on this vehicle, I doubt that it is 11-12-4 but I figured I would attach it anyway.

 

Update: 2 fan clutches, 4 thermostat, new egr coolers......still same puking

I told the tech I approved the diagnosis charges up to 5k dollars for them to do a tear down to the head gaskets, and he declined to do so. He said he is certain it's not the head gaskets. So he has been throwing parts at it and it's been at the shop 4 weeks now. Tech contacted ford hotline, and they told him to replace the egr coolers. Picked it up today, hitched it to the 5th wheel, lost all the coolant and had to park it cause it over heated

There used to be a ford tech here went by Crystal. Anybody know if she is still around and how to get a hold of her????

 

Redz284u, here's another thread, you may have read it already, but I think it fits your situation:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...mittently.html