Rag joint to U-Joint?
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 203
Likes: 1
From: Agassiz, BC Canada
Rag joint to U-Joint?
The steering in my 90 has had a lot of play since I bought, I've just lived with since way back the alignment shop informed me a "new used" steering column was almost $700. 
As far as I can tell the slop, or at least most of it, is in the rag joint as the top U joint is good and the box appears to be in decent condition.
I've been doing some reading lately and it sounds like a redneck is rebuild or replacement of the rag joint is one possible fix and likely the cheapest option. I did stumble across a couple of aftermarket steering shafts (way too pricey) but that got me thinking, would something like this work?
Borgeson Universal Company :: Universal Joints :: Steel Single Universal Joints :: 3/4-36 X 13/16-36
I haven't disassemble my truck to measure but going off info for aftermarket shafts the sizes seem right. If anybody knows or has done something similar some info would be great, the thought of a slop free steering wheel is getting me all excited!
As far as I can tell the slop, or at least most of it, is in the rag joint as the top U joint is good and the box appears to be in decent condition.I've been doing some reading lately and it sounds like a redneck is rebuild or replacement of the rag joint is one possible fix and likely the cheapest option. I did stumble across a couple of aftermarket steering shafts (way too pricey) but that got me thinking, would something like this work?
Borgeson Universal Company :: Universal Joints :: Steel Single Universal Joints :: 3/4-36 X 13/16-36
I haven't disassemble my truck to measure but going off info for aftermarket shafts the sizes seem right. If anybody knows or has done something similar some info would be great, the thought of a slop free steering wheel is getting me all excited!
Methanoholic
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,442
Likes: 8
From: Maine (NorCal Native)
Think about this, Rag joints are there to break away in case of accident ...
I suspect a 3/4" double D on the top would be best ...
EDIT
Thus 3/4-36x3/4-DD (if the gear box is 3/4-36, I know the upper shaft is 3/4 double D.)
-Enjoy
fh : )_~
I suspect a 3/4" double D on the top would be best ...
EDIT
Thus 3/4-36x3/4-DD (if the gear box is 3/4-36, I know the upper shaft is 3/4 double D.)
-Enjoy
fh : )_~
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 203
Likes: 1
From: Agassiz, BC Canada
What is a DD style interface, is that a shaft with a flat face machined onto it? I guess it might be best to take the rag joint off and measure before ordering. I was hoping to only have to muck around in there once.
I suppose having the rag joint let go in the event of an accident would be beneficial, although I worry about the rag joint letting go while I'm driving.
I suppose having the rag joint let go in the event of an accident would be beneficial, although I worry about the rag joint letting go while I'm driving.
Methanoholic
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,442
Likes: 8
From: Maine (NorCal Native)
Yup, I as well worry about them in bad condition, good condition no.
I personally recommend finding a good used one, as long as it's not oil soaked it should be good for many years to come.
Single D is Round stock with one flat side.
Double D is round stock with two flats sides.
I do understand the mucking around twice in there, It's a painful thing for me!
Something I'm not sure of is when the shafts changed and the lower half slides over the DD upper for the slip joint, and the lower became part of the rag joint, you are going to have to figure out how to connect to the lower half so you keep the slip joint (collapsible shaft), this is a safety feature that you really don't want to lose.
-Enjoy
fh : )_~
I personally recommend finding a good used one, as long as it's not oil soaked it should be good for many years to come.
Single D is Round stock with one flat side.
Double D is round stock with two flats sides.
I do understand the mucking around twice in there, It's a painful thing for me!
Something I'm not sure of is when the shafts changed and the lower half slides over the DD upper for the slip joint, and the lower became part of the rag joint, you are going to have to figure out how to connect to the lower half so you keep the slip joint (collapsible shaft), this is a safety feature that you really don't want to lose.
-Enjoy
fh : )_~
Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,476
Likes: 37
From: Madison, WI
Our trucks don't have collapsible steering columns, as cars have had since the '70s? And in a crash (there are no "accidents"), if the rag joint gives way, wouldn't it just hit the box and impale you anyway (unless the column collapses)?
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 203
Likes: 1
From: Agassiz, BC Canada
I'm thinking I might try and get a new rag joint and put it in, I'll measure everything while I'm at it, and if the new joint doesn't hold up I will attempt a U-joint conversion.
I don't know that I would call it a collapsible shaft, but the centre section of the steering shaft does have a slip joint in it. It looks like it is more to provide a place for things to move as the truck flexes, or in the event someone installs a body lift, but I suppose it would help a little in a front end accident.
I don't know that I would call it a collapsible shaft, but the centre section of the steering shaft does have a slip joint in it. It looks like it is more to provide a place for things to move as the truck flexes, or in the event someone installs a body lift, but I suppose it would help a little in a front end accident.
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,860
Likes: 7
What I found on my trucks is that the plastic "rag joint" was just fine. It was the plastic "shim" inside the "slip joint" where the upper and lower halves join together.
I haven't found a great solution thus far, though. I've shoved shims in there, and it works for a while until it works loose. If I could find a replacement plastic shim piece by itself, that would solve a lot of problems, but I can't find one.
I haven't found a great solution thus far, though. I've shoved shims in there, and it works for a while until it works loose. If I could find a replacement plastic shim piece by itself, that would solve a lot of problems, but I can't find one.
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 203
Likes: 1
From: Agassiz, BC Canada
What I found on my trucks is that the plastic "rag joint" was just fine. It was the plastic "shim" inside the "slip joint" where the upper and lower halves join together.
I haven't found a great solution thus far, though. I've shoved shims in there, and it works for a while until it works loose. If I could find a replacement plastic shim piece by itself, that would solve a lot of problems, but I can't find one.
I haven't found a great solution thus far, though. I've shoved shims in there, and it works for a while until it works loose. If I could find a replacement plastic shim piece by itself, that would solve a lot of problems, but I can't find one.
One of these days, when I get a few spare minutes, I will pull the steering shaft and see what I can come up with.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
10 Things Every Truck Owner NEEDS (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer
Joe Kucinski
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies
Joe Kucinski
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,264
Likes: 7
i have replaced my lower steering shaft in my truck.
the rag joint was done.
so i purchased some flaming river steering u-joints and DD shaft.
modified my column to accept it.
ran me about 180 bucks, they can be done cheaper with the borgenson's.
but mine are stainless steel.
everyone always says " that is not the right way"
or...
"if youre in an accident you can impale yourself"
well ill tell you from using this method for more than 20 years,
there is no more rag joint to go out on you.
it significantly improves steering play.
and if youre in a bad enough accident, that the crash ends up moving your steering box back more than 3-4" youre in a world of hurt anyways.
these are not plastic trucks.
if you get into a head on with a semi while both of you are foing 70 mph,
ill tell you... you will not be in good shape, even if you are lucky enough to keep breathing.
an OBS column is not collapsible. but it is super short.
the rag joint was done.
so i purchased some flaming river steering u-joints and DD shaft.
modified my column to accept it.
ran me about 180 bucks, they can be done cheaper with the borgenson's.
but mine are stainless steel.
everyone always says " that is not the right way"
or...
"if youre in an accident you can impale yourself"
well ill tell you from using this method for more than 20 years,
there is no more rag joint to go out on you.
it significantly improves steering play.
and if youre in a bad enough accident, that the crash ends up moving your steering box back more than 3-4" youre in a world of hurt anyways.
these are not plastic trucks.
if you get into a head on with a semi while both of you are foing 70 mph,
ill tell you... you will not be in good shape, even if you are lucky enough to keep breathing.
an OBS column is not collapsible. but it is super short.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,105
Likes: 78
Yea .. i gotta agree ..
This steering column just happens to be in the middle of a great big steel sled ..
90% of vehicles on the road would be crushed like a soda can if u hit them .. walls and huge trees might be a thing .. but in that case it's already bad news
This steering column just happens to be in the middle of a great big steel sled ..
90% of vehicles on the road would be crushed like a soda can if u hit them .. walls and huge trees might be a thing .. but in that case it's already bad news
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,105
Likes: 78
Well .. i wouldn't tell them ..
The govt made alot of rules in that era and pretty much killed american muscle cars by '73 thru regulations
I'd prefer a dangerous fun wagon lol .. but it's nice to know if i plow over a prius it won't hurt my steering wheel .
The govt made alot of rules in that era and pretty much killed american muscle cars by '73 thru regulations
I'd prefer a dangerous fun wagon lol .. but it's nice to know if i plow over a prius it won't hurt my steering wheel .
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 867
Likes: 3
From: North Bend
Rag joint to U-Joint?
I'm very interested in a low-cost reliable solution to this. One of Ford's major faults is this terrible sloppy steering.
I have a Red Head steering box and good steering linkage all around, just that dumb DD/slip joint with almost all of the play.
Like Rob I've put some shims in there but they only work so long. I used spare feeler shims I had which worked great for a while. Still hard to get down there to install them.
I was thinking of drilling through the outer shaft and tapping the hole, then using a small, mild steel bolt to pinch the lower shaft "solid". Then in a crash the bolt would easily give way.
Essentially it would be a set screw.
Thoughts? Other ideas?
I have a Red Head steering box and good steering linkage all around, just that dumb DD/slip joint with almost all of the play.
Like Rob I've put some shims in there but they only work so long. I used spare feeler shims I had which worked great for a while. Still hard to get down there to install them.
I was thinking of drilling through the outer shaft and tapping the hole, then using a small, mild steel bolt to pinch the lower shaft "solid". Then in a crash the bolt would easily give way.
Essentially it would be a set screw.
Thoughts? Other ideas?
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,105
Likes: 78
Sounds like it'd be a good way to tackle the problem. ..
This might sound stupid but what is a dd /slip joint anyway? My steering is oK .. not perfect but i just figured it was a little loose b'cause 4x4 ..
If i fix this dd joint would it titen up that occasional left right wander? Is that the issue ? Pics ?
This might sound stupid but what is a dd /slip joint anyway? My steering is oK .. not perfect but i just figured it was a little loose b'cause 4x4 ..
If i fix this dd joint would it titen up that occasional left right wander? Is that the issue ? Pics ?