The Kindler, Gentler forum . Seriously, wouldn't the world be great if it all worked like it does here?

 

Hi Tugly,

That wasn't where I was going with my comment, but point taken. I stopped going to Pirate4x4 because of the culture of flaming.

The truck still isn't running and here is what I have been up to with it. Because of the mileage on the truck I have replaced some stuff as needed maintenance.

I pulled each injector and replaced the o-rings on them. It wasn't as bad of a job as I had expected. I think replacing glow plugs was worse. Some of the o-rings did appear to have delaminated and allowed a piece of the o-ring to come off. Next, I replaced the valve cover gaskets and the wiring harnesses on both sides. Both ohmed out just fine but I broke one of the clips on the right side connector. It snapped pretty easily making me think it was brittle. I ohmed each new harness prior to install and while I did not expect to have one be bad I wanted to make sure they were good going in.

I used Tugly's 42 pin IDM schematic to ohm out each harness from he Valve cover to the main connector over the left valve cover with an auto-ranging multimeter. All went to zero ohms, but some would bounce to .3 ohms for a split second so I think that was me not having a steady hand. To ensure that I have good oil in it I changed the oil. I used a little suction pump to drain the HPOP reservoir and made sure the HPOP reservoir was full afterward,

What I plan to do next is check resistance be between the 42pin connector and the connector to the IDM. I am going to need a third hand for that so I will recruit some help.

I had planned to do a buzz test with car gauge pro and forgot before I started replacing injector 0-rings. I attempted to do a buzz test, but I do not think I was using car gauge pro correctly, either that or I have more issues. Something on the passenger side would buzz, but none of the injectors would buzz individually.

After putting every thing back together I cranked the truck and still no start. No smoke, and this time no hpop pressure in Torque Pro. I feel like I have gone from bad to worse, but maybe that is also an indicator of something.

As part of the planned maintenance I have a new IDM to install. I received it today.

I planned to do a recheck of connections as well. If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions I welcome the help.

Thanks

 

I changed out the IDM and was able to do a buzz test. It buzzed all eight injectors. It still is a crank no start issue though. Today I spent the day checking wiring again when I noticed a noise after a cranking session. I found out the IPR is leaking and letting oil drain out slowly. Until today I had not heard this noise or noticed oil leaking into the engine valley. I was not able to work on it any further as I had to move onto another project. I replaced he IPR in a parking lot so I did not have access to all of my tools.

I do have one question if anyone is following this thread. When I use a multimeter to check resistance on the 42 pin connector what should be the values for the driver and passenger side high voltage supply pins. All of the injector pins ohmed out at .3 or less on an auto ranging multimeter, but the two supply lines were very high, ie 15-18 ohms. Is this an indicator of my no start issue or am I doing something wrong? If a buzz test buzzes each injector does that indicate power is traveling through the harness?

 

When ohming out the high voltage lines, you are looking for a short to ground that might not be popping the fuse. They should show infinity to ground (open) - or no connection whatsoever to ground. If you get any numeric resistance reading on those high voltage lines, you have a short via a chaffed wire or bad plug. This would normally blow the fuse. What you are really looking for on any voltage wire is "continuity" or a solid connection. This would be a BROKEN wire or bad connection to a pin in the plug, not a shorted wire.

If your buzz test worked fine, you don't need to check those voltage supply wires further.

Starting to sound like a high pressure oil bleed off (leak) to me. You are doing good. Keep it up and you will have it figured out soon.

 

Thanks Nickmike. When I discovered the leaking IPR relay felt like finally I am getting somewhere, even if I caused it. To make sure I understand your explanation. For example on my auto ranging Multimeter if I am testing resistance or ohms it shows "L" on the led readout when the leads are not touching anything. If I touch the leads together it goes to zero as it should. Does open to ground mean my readout would give me some sort of resistance reading mean continuity and a closed circuit (or no continuity) would remain at "L". Which means the large readout of the power supply lines is not ideal (chafing, cracked wire) but there is continuity. Or, more simply put a short to ground shows up has a high resistance when ohming the wire.

Again, thanks for the help.

 

An "open" circuit means no continuity or 0L on your meter and a short to ground "closed" circuit will read low resistance. I'm not sure where you were reading 15-18 ohms but if that was through a wire from one end to the other then that needs fixed.

 

Your power wires to your injectors should all read "OL" on your meter when checked to ground. There should be no numbers. If you suspect there is a broken wire, then you need to check for "continuity" which is just a word for "good connection with no BREAKS in the wire". The reason I say that is, if you have a broken wire or a disconnect from a pin, then you could also get an "OL" reading for RESISTANCE TESTING to ground.

So, to check for continuity you simply put the black lead on one end of the wire (plug at one end), and the red lead on the other end of the wire (plug at the other end). You should use the "diode" setting on your meter, not ohms. This is, of course, after making sure the wire does not "ring" to ground first. It should be open to ground before checking continuity from end to end (no breaks).

A short to ground will show as VERY low resistance on your meter (1-3 ohms), which means electricity will flow to ground easily with nothing to stop it. This creates current flow which creates heat and fire. Hence, the reason we have circuit breakers - they are set to a certain amount of current flow, and if that is exceeded they cut the connection to prevent heat and fire. No short to ground should be an "OL" on your meter, as Chev said.

 

The 0.3 for the injector coils sounds a little off, they should be more along the line of 3.0... but who's to say with an autoranging meter of unknown brand. The successful buzz was the thing that indicates the injectors will fire, so we can roll with that for now.

Since you've disrupted everything that had to do with ICP, it will take 15-20 seconds of cranking to get enough of the air out of the oil to build any ICP. Even then one or two of the front injectors will be slow to start shooting oil out of the spouts - they will be the residual air bleed. If any one step along the way wasn't 100%, you may still have an internal oil leak.

Since you've already got air in the oil system, a Cody test can't hurt anything at this point. Search that, and you'll find it's an easy test.

 

After reinstalling the IPR and refilling the HPOP reservoir it started after about 15-20 seconds of cranking just as Tugly predicted.

I had Torque Pro running on it and let the truck idle. It was idling a little rough for about the first minute and stalled once. It restarted with little effort. I continued to monitor Torque Pro and some of the values are as follows:
HPOP - 550 range (539-600) Increasing RPM to 1500 increased HPOP psi to 774
IPR % - 9.7 - 11.2
ICP-v - 0.7 - 0.9
Injector PW (pulse width?) 2648

I then closed Torque Pro and opened Car Gauge and ran codes and nothing showed up. I then ran a CCT in Car Gauge and it said "Normal exit with Results". P06030 Keep alive (kam) error" which as I understand is a common code when you disconnect batteries or have bad battery connections. I ran the CCT twice with the same results. I was hoping to actually get some numerical data. I also did a glow plug test twoce since I was in there and it seemed fine. I also ran a scan for codes and received "P1464 A/C demand out of self test range". I will worry about that another day.

I also used Car Gauge to monitor some sensors:
Injector Bank 1 - 0ms
Injector Bank 2 - 0ms
Injector pressure - 4.2 mpa
Injector duty pressure - 26.1%
Injector volts - 0.8v

Does any of this mean anything to anyone? I realize my HPOP pressure is seriously low. Is this indicative of a failing HPOP?

Thanks for the help from everyone.

 

how does it run on the road?
if sluggish remove ICP connector and check for oil ( Oil means leaking and usually wrong readings0, ignore CEL and go for a spin

 

Knottyrope, I have not taken it out of the drive way yet. I thought the 550 range hpop psi was low and something is still not quite right, but after doing some searching maybe for idle the 550 range is okay.

Plus, I still have the fender wells out of it and thought I should get them back in.

 

Idle won't use high pressure. It's not needed. At 1500 rpm it still not much of a load compared to driving it WOT in like 3rd grear

 

Its been a while since I had a weakening HPOP but 550 at idle does sound good. You can dead head each bank and take the pressure reading to determine where the loss is.

I don't know how to upload my pdf file but I found a link for it here;

http://www.shopinjectors.com/diesel/...nosis-info.pdf

 

The HPO system is a balancing act. IPR, FIPW, and RPM effects ICP - depending on the scenario. Idling in the mid-500s with an IPR below 10% is actually a little high. Not out-of-spec high, but wonder-about-the-ICP-sensor-accuracy high.

When I first started experimenting with OBDII gauges, I grabbed just about everything that read more than zero. I now have it down to the PIDs that tell me something:



This is what you're looking for in order to get your PERDEL readings.

 

Knottypine, Thanks for the feedback. I drove the truck last night for about eight miles overall. It ran very well. No hiccups, stumbles, etc. It ran strong. When I got back I parked it in the drive way and did notice oil drops on the ground. I think it might be residual oil from my IPR leak that leaked into the engine valley making its way to the ground. I plan to clean the engine up this weekend to ensure I do not have an actual leak. If it was a leak in the HPOP system I do not think it would have run so well.

Usaman and Tugly,
Thanks for the data, I think!. I have learned so much about the injection system on a 7.3L and I realize I still have a long way to go! I will put the study on your information and see where I am a. Unfortunately, the other night I did not have my phone present or I would have used Torque Pro to monitor everything while I was driving. Tomorrow night my daughter and I are going to the rifle range to finish sighting in her muzzle loader. I think I will drive it tomorrow and monitor it with Torque pro.

Thanks again for the help.