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Loosen the dist just enough so you can move it, but it will stay where you put it. Crank the engine and twist the dist a little one way and then the other and see if that lets it crank faster. If the timing is too advanced it will make it hard to crank over.
I've seen this suggestion several times for slow cranking speeds, and it makes a lot of sense. If fighting a spark that happens too soon, that would obviously slow the cranking speed.
However, as a professional grade person of laziness, is it possible to troubleshoot for the same basic problem by disabling the ignition? Pull and ground the center lead from the distributor. The engine obviously won't start, but if the cranking speed now returns to normal, that indicates you were fighting too much timing advance. If no change, then proceed to checking elsewhere. You've made the same general diagnostic step but much more quickly and without touching a wrench or changing any adjustments.
Whaddya think? It's a lazy man's refinement to a good idea.
I've seen this suggestion several times for slow cranking speeds, and it makes a lot of sense. If fighting a spark that happens too soon, that would obviously slow the cranking speed.
However, as a professional grade person of laziness, is it possible to troubleshoot for the same basic problem by disabling the ignition? Pull and ground the center lead from the distributor. The engine obviously won't start, but if the cranking speed now returns to normal, that indicates you were fighting too much timing advance. If no change, then proceed to checking elsewhere. You've made the same general diagnostic step but much more quickly and without touching a wrench or changing any adjustments.
Whaddya think? It's a lazy man's refinement to a good idea.
My theory is if you kill the ignition completely, then you can lighten the load on the starter too much, that even a engine where everything is normal will crank faster with the ignition shorted to ground.
But on the other hand, if you don't want to mess with the timing at all and leave it where it's set, then I think I would use your method just to keep from moving the dist. Usually though, people are in the middle of messing around with the timing so moving it causes no harm.
I am a fan of being lazy, but considering that my timing is in the general area of Tdc and I don't know for certain if it is correct, I'm going with turning the starter while it's cranking. Thanks anyway kr! It's still a good suggestion! I'll be back later with results!
I am a fan of being lazy, but considering that my timing is in the general area of Tdc and I don't know for certain if it is correct, I'm going with turning the starter while it's cranking. Thanks anyway kr! It's still a good suggestion! I'll be back later with results!
When I say I don't know if it's correct, I mean a few degrees off, not 180. Just wanted to clear that up before anyone jumps down my throat! Haha
So, I didn't see this happening with my first few starters, only with this high torque one... But I heard it spinning freely and thought maybe the teeth on the fly wheel or something was messed up, we'll take a look at this picture of my starter and tell me what you guys think, bad design, or is my fly wheel doing something funky back there? the inside of the starter ended up getting DESTROYED
So, I didn't see this happening with my first few starters, only with this high torque one... But I heard it spinning freely and thought maybe the teeth on the fly wheel or something was messed up, we'll take a look at this picture of my starter and tell me what you guys think, bad design, or is my fly wheel doing something funky back there?
My first thought is the crankshaft has too much fore/aft freeplay. If the crankshaft can migrate forward too far, that could be the cause of your problem.
I'm not sure how to check freeplay on a complete engine. I've done it during assembly with feeler gauges or a dial indicator, but there must be some way to check without a teardown.
My first thought is the crankshaft has too much fore/aft freeplay. If the crankshaft can migrate forward too far, that could be the cause of your problem.
I'm not sure how to check freeplay on a complete engine. I've done it during assembly with feeler gauges or a dial indicator, but there must be some way to check without a teardown.
If you can get a pry bar at the back flywheel/flex plate you should be able to check it.
Pry it back, dial gauge on the either front or rear and zeroed in then pry forward off the front balancer and get your reading.
But I would think just prying it forward & back you would be able to tell if it had a lot of movement.
Dave ----
Is the ring gear still centered on the edge of the flywheel? I'm wondering if that could have worked loose and rubbed into the starter. Or does it look like the face of the flywheel was also making contact? Look through the hole where the starter fits and you should be able to tell.
I just checked the crankshaft end play limits. The limit is .004-.008" for an overhaul, and .012" for in-service. The #3 main bearing cap is what controls the fore/aft play. Even if the thrust portion of the #3 bearing inserts was completely worn away, it's hard to imagine that much play, now that I think about.
The thrust face of the crankshaft would be rubbing against the side of the #3 journal and making all sorts of horrible noises. It would be even worse while cranking, as you'd have the clutch depressed, which forces the crankshaft forward via the throwout bearing. That's why my TheoryDuMoment(tm)* is a loose ring gear.
*Subject to change, based on wind direction, my medication levels, and the nearby presence of squirrels.
Do the other non-damaged starters have the same basic dimensions? In other words, does this one's damaged area stick out the same amount from the mounting surface?
Almost 20 minutes on one theory. I believe that is a new record for me. Oh look, a squirrel!...
There are difference in starters and flywheels, an earlier thread on here raised this. https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...er-issues.html
Can you bypass the clutch switch to try starting this without the clutch being depressed?
You could try some washers between the starter and mounting plate to space it out as a test
Is the ring gear still centered on the edge of the flywheel? I'm wondering if that could have worked loose and rubbed into the starter. Or does it look like the face of the flywheel was also making contact? Look through the hole where the starter fits and you should be able to tell.
I just checked the crankshaft end play limits. The limit is .004-.008" for an overhaul, and .012" for in-service. The #3 main bearing cap is what controls the fore/aft play. Even if the thrust portion of the #3 bearing inserts was completely worn away, it's hard to imagine that much play, now that I think about.
The thrust face of the crankshaft would be rubbing against the side of the #3 journal and making all sorts of horrible noises. It would be even worse while cranking, as you'd have the clutch depressed, which forces the crankshaft forward via the throwout bearing. That's why my TheoryDuMoment(tm)* is a loose ring gear.
*Subject to change, based on wind direction, my medication levels, and the nearby presence of squirrels.
With the limit of .004-.008 and .012 for in service it was kind of the point I was trying to make even if you could not get a good measurement, if you have enough movement to eat the starter just moving the crank would show this.
It went against all mechanical knowledge I have but I got it going, and I'll answer all of your questions too, I was going to respond yesterday but my phone died so I'm sorry to leave you guys head scratching longer than ya needed to! 1st the starter that exploded had more metal touching the fly wheel than the other ones, so I put in my old one from the 302 that just had a small lip that would catch. Before I installed it, I just grinded that lip away. After doing this it was still cranking slow so I thought about the fore and after play. What do you do when you need something to slide back and you're a redneck? Hit it softly with a hammer! Believe it or not, it worked haha normal cranking speed, beautiful idle, am I speechless? Yup but hey it worked haha thanks for your help guys! As always!
love the last line