I'd much rather have a simple voltage meter for a gauge. For the life of me I cannot understand why Ford (and others) have eliminated it. Unlike DEF there's no way to check it that I've found. Maybe it's time for a ScanGaugeII or ScanDashboss or Torque Pro app, something like that.

 

I like gauges. Analogue, but they are getting harder to find. Ford has used a bogus oil pressure gauge for years. Either Pressure or No Pressure, but it looked like a gauge. Ram has a DEF gauge. I think it is intrusive:



Kenworth W-900 has one too, but I am not sure which it is. Note the upfitter switches:


I think I'll take the conventional KW approach.

 

I happened to look at a brand new RAM 3500 Cummins Tradesman the other day. I realize it's one of the lower trims, but there were only 4 gauges: speedometer, tachometer, fuel level, and DEF! I cannot believe engine coolant temp was bumped in favor of DEF on an HD truck!! There was a small message center between the gauges which could presumably read out the engine temp etc, but I was very surprised.

 

With my f150, and I think it is the case with the super duty, the engine temp, trans temp, and oil pressure gauges are fake - so it doesn't really matter.

What I mean by fake is they are basically warning lights with arms. For example, my engine temp gauge starts moving around 130 degrees, reaches it's running position (just below 1/2) around 165, and doesn't move at all through the highest temp I have reached (230). If I recall correctly, it stays still until 245 and then pegs on hot.

I'd rather have a real DEF gauge than the 3 fake gauges when when I get my 6.7.

 

I still haven't really seen anyone post up a good reason for a DEF gauge.

Here's the deal, we all know that a DEF gauge would go from full to empty over the course of 5,000+ miles, maybe even over 8,000 miles under certain conditions. In short, the DEF gauge would hardly move over the course of a daily drive. Even more, there's plenty of warnings that pop up repeatedly once it gets down to 500 miles to empty. That's a tank of fuel at least, more than enough time to get the truck to a gas station to fill up for fuel as well as purchase some DEF if you don't have any. So a non-moving gauge doesn't make much sense to me.

But wait, other gauges don't move much, right?

Ok, let's take away the obvious speedo, tach, and fuel gauges. What do we have left? Boost, coolant temp, and trans temp.

Boost gauge moves continuously. It can give you an indication of how hard the engine is working. Also if boost is low it can be a sign of a problem, so the gauge can in a way alert the driver to an issue, meaning it has functionality.

The coolant temp and trans temp gauges move up to the middle and stay put the rest of the time. So they are useless right? Well, if they do move up, it means there's a problem, the engine or trans is overheating. Since the gauges can alert the driver to an issue, it means it has functionality.

Now we get to a DEF gauge. Again, it will hardly move during a day's drive, it doesn't do much at all. But what if it suddenly moved? What if it dropped to zero? That would mean the gauge failed. The only time the gauge would suddenly move during a drive is if the gauge itself failed. It can only indicate a problem with itself, nothing else. That means it has no other functionality other than to tell you whether the gauge itself works or not.

That's why I can't understand the need for a DEF gauge. It has no everyday use, it has no purpose. It can only point to itself if there's ever a problem.

 

What Pocket Said. I don't want DEF in the first place. The gauge is another reminder of a smaller fuel tank and a supply of cow pee on board.But Pocket left out the oil pressure which, if accurate can tell all kinds of tales. Sudden change in oil pressure at speed indicates high temperature or fuel in the oil or a failing bearing or sudden loss due to leak or line failure. Low oil pressure at idle can indicate failing main bearings or failing oil pump. Gradual change can be related to any of many problems all of which should be investigated. That is why I so dislike the Ford oil gauge hooked to an on/off pressure switch. There is no tell tale sign of impending doom. When the needle changes it goes to zero. Zero is too late.

 

The gauges are all equipped with dampers - nobody wants their fuel level to vary drastically if they go up or down a hill. I find the transmission and coolant temp gauges move fairly linearly during warmup. You can actually view the digital readout of trans temp and engine oil temp to compare with the gauge, so it seems fairly accurate. There is no doubt that the gauges do not rise much at all when then engine / trans heats up. I do agree that beyond the normal stopping point it becomes all or nothing. Oil pressure is not a current Super Duty gauge with the diesel, but it is on the gas. Basically it operates on the dummy light principle.

Nevertheless, the DEF gauge cannot be any better because of the way it is measured.

 

Well one good reason is that the truck will limit itself if the DEF isn't refilled. Your reasoning is like saying we don't need a fuel gauge. You know your truck will go 480 miles on a tank of gas, so just keep track of how far you've driven since you last refilled. If that's not enough, the truck will tell you when it's down to the last few gallons which should be plenty of time to find a gas station. Why have a fuel gauge that hardly moves during a days drive?

I can go 700 miles on a tank of gas. A DEF gauge can be a good reminder if I'm on a trip that I will need to refill soon and to either bring some DEF along or plan on picking some up. I was recently on a long trip when my DEF 500 mile message hit with about 450 miles to go. Fortunately it was a non issue except for the annoying reminders that kept popping up. If I had a DEF gauge I would've been more prepared as I was approaching empty. When I have 4 hours to go after driving all day I really just want to get home and not take the extra time to find, buy, refill my DEF when I could've done it at the beginning of my trip had I known or thought about it.

I don't think it needs to be a permanent gauge, but why it's not one of the information center gauges is beyond me.

 

In the information center you can check DEF level any time you want. It's already there.

And it's not up to you to keep track of DEF usage, which is variable. It warns you at 800 miles to empty. It's a warning that won't go away from the screen till you hit OK to acknowledge it. And it comes back every time you start the truck. It's very difficult to miss.

 

Where would this be?


When you're driving 1000 miles in a day the warning comes a little too late. Why not have a gauge where you can see the level before starting a long trip? If nothing else as a reminder to get more DEF. I prefer to use Motorcraft DEF as it's only a few dollars more and recommended by Ford. It's not like I can just stroll into any gas station and buy Motorcraft.

 

Warning screen in the info center should be enough to indicate DEF. How many rely on vehicle computer scheduled oil changes? I have always regulated oil change milage by vehicle usage. Good warmups and long trips get more miles. Heavy loads and pulling reduce some. Winter idling reduce some more. Full synthetic: definitely. I've worked on a couple of synthetic only engines and wear was barely detectable. Very minor wipe down and parts were as clean as new. Worth it.

I wish there were a way to calibrate the xxx miles to empty for the fuel. I still have 5 gallons left when empty, more than enough to compensate for attitude on a hill. The newer the vehicles the more bells whistles and visual delights make themselves known more often as 0 approaches. If you can't figure out you need fuel after the first or maybe even the second warning no amount of nagging will change the outcome.

 

Go to System Check on the message center and you can find it in there. It will say OK, 50%, 25%, etc.

Most people are not driving their Super Duty 1000+ miles a day. For those who do, the simple precaution would be to bring another bottle of DEF along with them. Nevertheless, 800 miles is plenty of time to find a Ford dealer, and in a pinch, Wal-Mart or just about anywhere sells DEF which isn't going to harm your truck. It only gets injected into the exhaust, doesn't touch the engine.

My advice to you, if this is such a major issue for you, would be to buy a RAM.

 

The fuel gauge can easily go from full to empty on a day's drive.

The DEF gauge can't, unless the gauge itself failed. In which case, the gauge is useless since it only points to a problem with itself and not the system.

So you would have had to fill up with fuel before the DEF needed to be filled? That's what I got out of it. I'm not sure I see the issue, since it did constantly remind you that it needs to be filled, which is what it's supposed to do, and is the only time having a gauge would be useful anyway. To me that would be overly redundant.

It is in the driver information display. Always has been. Anything above 1/2 full will show OK, less than that will show other increments.

 

I think there are some who never look at gauges and information. Turn the key and go. No warmup. Hit the throttle hard right after starting. Pull hard, pull in and shut off the key. No cool down. Gauges? Look after you see the cop. The rest are for the picture in the brochure. I believe most here genuinely care about their vehicles, otherwise they wouldn't be here, but there are lots others who are an embarrassment to all responsible owners and drivers.

Still don't want a DEF gauge. How about a Stewart Warner Dash option instead of the Moonroof. Real, live gauges, easily readable, classic and accurate. Optional spots for extra gauges like DEF if you choose. And 2 pyrometers. One before turbo (important) and one after intercooler (fluff). Axle gauges if you want. Usually just one more wire and sensor to malfunction. On the other hand, the dash for the last several generations has looked pretty good and I am really glad to be able to hold on to the wheel and press the exzilerator and motor away.

 

Some have brought up fleet and motor pool type applications. Those dudes keep track of mileage and have check-in procedures. They could easily add a DEF check to those once a threshold has been passed. I'm sure they do already.

No it doesn't. While highly unusual to be driving for 18 to 20 hours every day, you're still going to have to stop for fuel before the DEF runs out regardless. Since you're going through a tank of DEF every week, I would assume you'd have at least a bottle or two on you at all times. But let's just assume you're out. While you're in there using the bathroom and grabbing some coffee, pick up some DEF. Or if you're at a proper truck stop, grab the DEF pump handle and fill 'er up. It's not difficult.

And yet people still run out of fuel. People are dumb, thus the warning and the padding. But you can have them reprogram your fuel tank for maybe 5 gallons less if you want to eliminate all padding (though I can't imagine why). Search the 6.7L forum for something like DTE computer and you get quite a few results. Here are the instructions, as the dealership might not know how off the top of their head:

1) Ensure IDS is at least version 72.xx -
2) Click on the toolbox icon at top left of main screen
3) Select 'Module Programming' - click checkmark icon
4) Select 'Programmable Parameters'
5) Select 'Fuel" - click checkmark icon
6) Select 'Front Fuel Tank - (IC) = xx' on bottom of parameter list
7) Select 50 (or whatever size your tank is) on right side of screen and click checkmark icon. Follow the remaining on-screen instructions.

Maybe, but even idiots should notice that big *** warning at SOME point, I'd like to think And you know what? Even if they don't, or they dismiss it without reading it, eventually it's going to go into limp mode, and they'll be forced to deal with it. But if they're that steadfast in ignoring the cluster, an otherwise unmoving gauge wouldn't be helpful, either.