Driving home today was the most that the dash gauge showed an overheat condition. Several times it ventured up to the red, i slow down and coast and it cool back down in middle range of gauge. When im about 5-6 miles from home it goes up to the redline and just hangs there, i slow down but no help. I figure that ive done puked out alot of fluid and running low on coolant. Well when i get home i leave it running, pop the hood and to my surprise the bottle is full and it hasnt puked out a single drop. By this time the temp gauge has fallen back down in middle range. I finally remembered to bring my digital temp gun from work and checked the following. I checked temp at t-stat housing and on the top radiator hose. I didnt get a picture of the temps while the engine was running, but at the t-stat housing it showed about 200 and on the hose it showed about 180. I cut the engine off and within just a few seconds the temps go up quite a bit.

T-stat housing, i had taken a reading as high as 233 but when i took pic it only showed 230...




Top radiator hose, again i took a reading as high as 216, but when taking a pic, all i could get was 213..




No telling what it was when the gauge was actually in the redline. All the fluid was still in the system. Does this still bode with injector cups or is there still some cooling issue going on like a fouled radiator? Ive got a new one that i picked up today from Ford, so its getting changed regardless, im just wanting to make sure i cover all bases. I talked to a guy today who i am likely to bring truck to to have work performed, he knew what i had wrong before i could even finish my story and when i mentioned the no heat on the heater core he said that it is likely result of the injector cups and air in the system. Also said that to date he has never had to pull heads on a 7.3 for failed head gaskets. I was saying i wanted to do so for insurance and he was adamant that he has NEVER needed to pull heads on 7.3 for gaskets. Its not that i dont believe him, its just that i know my luck. I will be that unlucky first timer. Will be about a week or two before he can get to it.

While at it, i plan on replacing injectors with either the 160 stg1 or the 160/30 stg 1.5. Will get hydra chip with new tunes, probably BTS tunes. Will replace glow plugs as well. Probably change to the 910 valve springs i think guys are touting. And will upgrade to a T500 hpop. Maybe not at the same time, but shortly thereafter will be installing some real gauges for coolant and engine temp so i can see whats going on, i was hesitant all these years because my engine has run almost flawlessly for 350k miles and i never really needed the extra gauges, but i definitely see the value.

What else would be recommended to change at this time or upgrade? Am i missing something? Again, thanks for all the help and comments.

 

Did you happen to check the temperature of the oil either in the pan, HPOP reservoir, or oil cooler? It would help to have a coolant to oil differential.

Is there more "other" fluid in the degas bottle besides water/antifreeze?

I think that there is a blockage either in the radiator or the oil cooler. If it is the cups, sooner or later you'll be filling the degas bottle with diesel.

 

The only thing i did is i shot a temp on the hpop reservoir and it wasnt near that high. I didnt think about the pan or oil cooler. I dont recall the actual number, but i think it was in the 200 range or less. The degas bottle looks about like it did in the other pics, no real change, maybe a lil more, but not much. Yea, i still think i have a cooling issue for sure. If all the fluid is in it and not emptied, why would it then over heat? Got to be a fouled radiator in my mind, glad i picked up a new one. But i guess no real way to test it until i change it. Thinking about doing the radiator change before i drop off for the cup job. Would there be issue with that? Could i harm things any worse than what they are? Could the diesel in the coolant be affecting the heat exchange in the fluid within the radiator? Would it be better to wait until after the cup job and do the radiator and flush the system of all diesel fuel?

 

You have not fully established the fact that you need a cup job, Yet! Pressure testing them is a good diagnostic tool. I cannot imagine you getting a cup job done by a shop for less than $600-700. For S&G's, I asked Ford how much they would charge and it was going to be almost $3G's. If it isn't cups, why waste the time(two days) and money.

Based upon your input, I would rule the oil cooler out as being clogged. It does point to the radiator.

If it is the cups then you are in the early stages of them leaking. Most are very obvious because you will have a substantial amount of fuel in the degas bottle due to the fuel being pressurized at 55-65+ psi and the coolant should be around 14-16 psi depending upon the health of your degas/radiator cap. There would be a visible coolant line/level and fuel line/level in the degas bottle.

If that is in fact fuel in your coolant, there is not enough in there to affect heat transfer.

By installing the radiator first, you do risk contaminating the new radiator. However, IMO, that is the least of your worries due to the fact that if there is currently fuel in the coolant, the whole system is going to have to be flushed anyway...what is an additional radiator. If you try to flush with the old radiator installed, it probably won't be very effective if it is clogged. So, if it were my truck, I would swap radiators and see what happens.. Others may disagree. Welcome their input.

What did you use to fill the degas bottle on the several occasions that you filled it when it ran hot and over flowed. Could the container(s) that you used have been contaminated with something like oil or fuel or something else that does not mix with water?

 

Radiator from Ford was $315. I was leaning towards doing the radiator this weekend anyway to further troubleshoot the cooling myself before dropping off for cup work. I used the empty coolant bottles that I bought the original coolant in. I've drained back into these bottles each time ive drained the system. It hasn't looked bad until yesterday.

 

Ok, i havent been able to do anything else to truck, been busy with work, graduations, and other obligations. The truck is parked and I am driving my dads other truck, an '05 6.0....yea, a 6.0 coming to the rescue of a 7.3.... i feel so ashamed.....lol

Anyway, i did talk to a local powerstroke guru and he mentioned it does sound like injector cups, but that alone should not cause the over heat conditions and quirkiness i am seeing. He said it could be an outside chance at a cracked head, said he had seen it before. But he has just had shoulder surgery and is out of commission for many weeks. Another local guru has yet to return my call. But as reassurance that i can either rule out a cracked head/head gasket i stopped at both oreilly and auto zone to pick up a block tester/combustion leak detector, the kind with the fluid that you draw into a tube and the fluid changes color....well both establishments only had the fluid for gasoline engines and not for diesel. Both fluid containers say for gasoline only, not for diesel. So, I found one online and ordered, hope to be here by the weekend so i can rule that out or confirm extra work of pulling the heads.

I did however get a chance to further troubleshoot what i think is a circulation issue due to the over heat. I have not had a chance to swap the radiator yet as mentioned before, but i did remove the heater hose from the water pump, plugged the pump barb off, ran an extension on the hose into a bucket, then i cranked the truck to see if i was getting flow to the heater core. Cranked it, ran it for a few minutes and nothing. Doesnt this loop bypass the t-stat? I mean that is what you want in winter time, you want the fluid to circulate thru engine and heater core before the t-stat lifts...right? So circulation would come from the block, to the core, then back to the pump. So with nothing coming out of the hose i shut the engine off. Then i proceeded to pull the lower heater hose that comes out of the block just below the a/c compressor. When the hose came off of the barb, coolant just started pouring from it. That bodes well for no obstructions in the block passages. Then i took that "supply" hose and stuck my home water hose in it and pulled the trigger with the discharge end still in the bucket. It flowed thru with ease, i did see a little debris like hard scale, not sand, was flat and hard like it flaked off of something. But there was not enough to cause a pluggage in my mind, maybe only 15-20 small bits, but definitely visible, not that the heater core being plugged would cause an over heat. Then i put the water hose on the other end of the heater hose and flushed it backwards. I was not able to catch the discharge going this way, but it was good flow, no pluggages. So, Im leaning towards no circulation due to a bad water pump. Even though it was new, what are chances that the impeller could have spun off or anything of the sort?

So this weekend i do plan to swap the radiator and pull water pump for inspection as well and hope that the combustion gas detector gets here so i can check that as well. And with one local guru unavailable, and the other not returning my call, looks like i may be planning and gearing up to do the job myself. I hope its just the cups..... Still scratching my head...

 

For shiats..remove the tstat, loop the heater core, empty out the good coolant into ur bottles, and fill system with water. Have the top rad hose laying over the grill via pvc pipe, vacuum hose attachment..etc, and turn truck on, while filling resivoir up...a way to see if motor is circulating.

 

Update: Cooling Issue solved.!!

Well, still didnt get to do the radiator swap, wanted to further troubleshoot. So as some have suggested yesterday I removed the thermostat and extended the top radiator hose past the front grill with some pvc pipe. With the system full of coolant, I cranked the engine and there was no pumping action at all. Nothing coming out of end of pipe. Rev the engine, nothing. Kill it. Okay, now i know the issue is water pump related (new pump, but two years on shelf). My neighbor thought it might have had a mouse either make a nest or die in one of the passages of the pump and plugging it up (happened to him once on a tractor water pump). Well then i pressurized the system by placing my mouth on the degas bottle cap and blowing...Big ole fat stream of water exiting the pipe. Okay, its not pluggage. Must be a broken pump shaft or spun impeller, never seen that before, but only logical choice left.

Today I called Ford and ordered another water pump ($300, use OEM parts to rule out anomalies). I get home and start ripping into the water pump again. Upon removal from the engine..... low and behold.....the culprit appears plain as day.....

See anything wrong with this picture?





The ring around the impeller must have been some sort of shipping/protector sleeve that I just did not notice when installing the pump the first time... DOH!!!! I feel so foolish...







There was just enough space around the edges of the ring and pump volute to allow the coolant to thermally cycle on heat convection alone or maybe it acted a bit like a peristaltic pump, who knows.






So, I remove the ring, reinstall the pump, and go for a test drive. Voila!! Over heat problem solved!! No more head scratching anymore. I ran the dog snot out of it on the same route as before and nothing more than normal temps on the gauge and the temp gun (no picture though). And the heater now works. Eureka!!! I just NEVER noticed that damn little sleeve the first go round. Going from my memory, it magically appeared because I didnt see it the first time, but I know now it was there all along. Just a simple oversight that could have burnt up my engine and caused my headaches to be alot worse (fingers crossed). I feel foolish that I did not catch that on original install.... brain farts will get the best of ya....

So I still have the injector cup issue to address and will now order parts for that job this week now that Ive got the cooling issue resolved. But I just knew there was something else going on besides the cups and Im glad I followed thru with my instinct....

On a side note: I drive on average 100 miles a day to and from work and run around town here and there. I drove the truck for one week to work (4 days) with the fluid puking out the cap and I drove it to work for one week (another 4 days) without losing fluid but still over heating before I parked it until figuring this out this afternoon. Its a damn good testament to the robust cooling system on this engine that I was able to drive it over 800 miles with a severely compromised water pump that was NOT circulating any coolant thru the system without burning this damn thing up. The only circulation was thermal cycling due to hot and cold water circulating past the clearances between the sleeve and the wall, not much. Stand to reason that I may still have done damage, I guess i could bore-scope the cylinders once I get the injectors out to verify if any wall scoring occurred. I will be crossing my fingers on that one. But I am none the less impressed that I didnt already lock things up essentially without a water pump for 800 miles. Thats crazy if you ask me...

But now I can take my water pump and radiator back to Ford and get my $600 back that can go towards the new cups/injectors Im about to put in. If nothing else that will pay for the new tuner to go with the injectors, that is if I dont find other major damages as a result of my DOH moment....

 

Good deal! I am glad you found your issue! I am even more glad you were able to look past your mistake and share with everyone what happened, I am sure you aren't the first or will be the last to make that mistake. At least there are some of us who now know at least one thing to watch for if we ever tackle this job!

Thank you for sharing!

 

Glad you got it figured, its always the simplest of things we over look that end upbeing the problem.

 

I actually Lol'd when I got to the first picture, I take that as laughing with you because I have definatally had those moments and absolutely laugh at myself.

Way to stay with it and trust your own instincts!!!

 

hey brother, im laughing right along with you while laughing with me, or at me, or at myself..... no problems laughing at myself....it happens quite often....

 

almost did the exact same thing when I did my pump last year....DOH!

 

Nice to figure out an anomalous problem like that. Glad it was not cups.

 

oh, im pretty sure i still have a cup issue..... i think that was my original issue, but then morphed into a cooling issue when i muffed the new water pump install. Im still getting diesel in the coolant.