i did a search and read a bunch of threads...

i have two working keys each with a fob attached. all good.

one key is marked ford. assume it to be original.

one key is blank. how can i tell if it is a copy or programmed ?

asking as i have three other cut keys that will not start the car and i need two programmed keys to code these.... (?)

are the fobs specific to the keys ?

tks

 

I've gone to Ace Hardware twice with "one key" Excursions. They have the chip keys and they have worked perfectly both times. Bad news--$60-70--but infinitely cheaper than the dealer. There may be other alternatives that others may know. This has worked for me and is simple.

 

The fobs are not specific to the keys.
The procedures for adding keys and fobs are in the owner's manual.
Depending on which PATS you have the procedure for adding keys requires 2 unique key IDs. If one key is a clone the procedure will not complete. Our 2002 Excur and 2003 Exped needs 2 keys. I have extra keys from ebay that are unique IDs and not "Ford" keys. You can get extra keys for under $20 from ebay sellers and Home Depot will cut them for free if you ask nice. They only charge for the key blanks. Home Depot now has chip programmers, but I think they may be "cloners".
For the fobs, all the fobs are entered (or saved by the computer) at one time. A single fob can't just be added.

 

if it starts the vehicle why would it matter ?

 

Because you must have two UNIQUE ID keys in order to add more without a scan tool, which is exactly what the OP wants to do.

HD, ACE, et al, can only clone an existing key. They can not and do not program new key IDs into the PATS system.

All Excursions require two unique keys in order to add more.

 

thanks...

so i guess i can try to program one and if it doesnt work it means the second blank key is a clone.

i also have three blank "cut" keys that do not work. they engine cranks but will not start. i assume the worked at one time as i found one hidden inside the manual pouch.

can ace/hd clone the chip in these if i bring in a good key ?

can the dealer add them using the scan tool ?

tks

 

Probably.
Maybe, impossible to know the history if you bought it that way unless work was done at a Ford dealer and you run an OASIS report.

They can clone any key that already works.

It depends. Probably, you'd actually have to take them in to a dealer or well-equipped locksmith or mechanic and have them try. If you're up to it, you can try it yourself using Forscan (What's new) and an appropriate OBDII interface.

 

Not True

I took my ONE factory key to Lowes and they made me 3 new keys that work perfect.
maybe they are copied or maybe they are programmed, who cares they work.

fwiw, I bought 4 blank generic keys and fobs off eBay for $20 and Lows cut and programmed them for free. i posted a thread on the subject.

 

is this chip in the keys battery powered ?

 

No - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transponder_car_key

 

No... What ProjectSHO is saying is this:

Let's forget about the metal part of the key, you can easily defeat the ignition lock cylinder with a slide hammer or a drill.

The head of your key contains a chip. The chip has a serial number. The PATS module reads the chip in the key to start the engine.

Your truck originally had two keys when it left the dealership lot with a happy new owner. Let's say the original keys had serial numbers 1015 and 1016.

No other key's serial numbers will start the engine. If the PATS module reads a new key and the serial numbers are not 1015 or 1016, the "Theft" light blinks.

Let's say you order a new key and its serial number is 2021. You get it cut on the key machine at bLowes or Homeless Depot. It will turn the door locks and ignition cylinder. But 2021 is not in the PATS module, so the "Theft" light blinks fast at you. PATS module tells the engine control unit to not fire the fuel injectors or ignition coils.

In order to add key 2021 to the PATS module, you need to perform the following procedure:

1.) Insert Key 1015 and turn to RUN for about 3 sec.
2.) Remove Key 1015.
3.) Insert Key 1016 and turn to RUN for about 3 sec.
4.) Remove Key 1016.
5.) Insert Key 2021 and turn to RUN for about 3 sec.

If you get a new key, 2022, you'll have to do an even longer procedure.

1.) Insert Key 1015 and turn to RUN for about 3 sec.
2.) Remove Key 1015.
3.) Insert Key 1016 and turn to RUN for about 3 sec.
4.) Remove Key 1016.
5.) Insert Key 2021 and turn to RUN for about 3 sec.
6.) Remove Key 2021.
7.) Insert Key 2022 and turn to RUN for about 3 sec.

After that procedure is complete, the PATS module will know the serial numbers 1015, 1016, and 2021 are all good keys and you can use any of the three to start the engine. I think the PATS module can store like 4 or 8 keys before it's filled up.



But let's say you're still at 2 keys and somewhere a long time ago, key 1016 was lost either by you or a previous owner. You took your one remaining key, 1015 to bLowes or Homeless Depot. They copy it. Their keys have a BLANK serial number. They have a computer to read your 1015 key and pop that serial number into the new blank key.

That's all well and good, you have three keys that turn the lock cylinders... But the serial numbers are all the same 1015. You will NEVER be able to complete the procedure to add a new key. You need at least two keys that are already in the system to complete the process.

The only other way to get new keys into the system is with special software that Ford dealers have.

This was supposed to stop valets and mechanics from copying your keys and then coming back later to steal your vehicle, as they'd only have one key at a time. This all predates the blank keys that the hardware stores have now.

 

thx so much

 

No, what I said is indeed true. You're confusing UNIQUE with "cloned". Unique keys each have a different RFID code that is stored into one of the available PATS key ID memory locations. A "Cloned" duplicate key has a COPY of the same RFID code as a key that is already programmed into the PATS system. The PATS system simply sees a code from the clone that's already stored as valid and authorizes the starting attempt.

Lowes CANNOT program NEW and UNIQUE keys your PATS system for you, they can only duplicate an existing RFID code into a programmable, capable key blank.

You'll care if you ever have to have the PCM or PATS module replaced as part of a repair. Until then, if it ever happens, the PATS system is perfectly happy with the clones.

The Excursion's PATS module can store 8 codes. Some of the older (97-98) Fords accommodated 16. I've not seen any indication of any Ford that stored less than 8.

 

why will I care if I ever have to replace the PCM or PATS ?

I am guessing that regardless if I have a cloned or unique key that replacing the pcm or pats is going to require the new modules to be programmed ?

 

Stuff happens... stuff breaks and has to be replaced.

If either the PCM or PATS modules ever has to be replaced, you'd been given a heads up.....