Old men love to bellyache about modern life, but really, why did "they" have to go and "improve" (make worse) a perfectly good old standby: belt dressing??!!

Back in MY day, when a V-belt got squeaky (maybe worn out, maybe not) you poked around in the back of your toolbox and fished out a cruddy-looking little tube. Unscrewed the little cap and squeezed out a quarter-inch of a viscous tarry substance rather like Permatex #2 (another great old standby) on to the tip of your index finger. You rubbed the tarry stuff over as much of the belt as you could get at, AND YOU COULD GET AT A LOT OF THE BELT, OR ANY OTHER COMPONENT ON ANY OLD CAR!!!!!, with the engine not running. You then wiped the remaining stuff off your fingers with a little gasoline (old days) or WD-40 (more recent). Fired up the engine, and in a minute or less, no more squeaks.

So I have this serpentine belt (I'm not sold on this idea, either, but I'm not militant about it), not very old, made by Gates so it should be the best, and it squeaks. Very regular loud chirps during warm-up, gradually quieting to occasional small chirps when warm. Same deal every morning (before you ask, yeah the idler is good and the various driven components rotate normally). Well, Big Name Auto Parts never heard of the little tube of tarry belt dressing. Sold me a red spray can with a straw, by CRC, and they do make some good products, but this sure ain't one!! I can spray a little or a lot on the very short section of the belt that is at all accessible in this 1988 E150 six, which I can do with the engine running without losing a hand and without all of the thin liquid spray being blown away without reaching the belt. I know it's getting on the belt, oh yes!! The regular chirp chirp chirp instantly changes to a continuous hideous shreaking that can be heard a block away. It takes several minutes for this din to gradually subside. And the next morning, the chirps are back, unchanged.

I have used these "Don't-soil-your-dainty-hands/try-our-new-and-improved-product" belt dressings before, and have always just got mad. Do any of you know where I can find The Real Stuff, good old tarry belt-goop in a tube? Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease!!

 

In searching for The Good Stuff just now, I found this by Dayco:

http://www.daycoproducts.com/why-bel...t-a-noisy-belt

Well, I can say that my pulleys appeared to be in alignment when I looked for that, though of course on a MODERN vehicle it's nearly impossible to see the engine at all, much less check pulley alignment (Gawd, I detest what has happened to cars during my lifetime!!!) (sorry, I'm better now). Interesting that they had to go to a longer-life belt material recipe when they changed from V-belts to serpentine, . . . and admit that the squeaking of these new belts is an industrywide problem.

Looking further, there seem to be a lot of homebrew recipes for belt dressing, though I can't find any of the old-type stuff in the little tubes. Evidently there also used to be a belt dressing in stick form; you'd peel back the paper wrapping and hold the end of the stick against the running V-belt. In any case, Dayco is telling us that all of this stuff is undesirable with the modern belt materials. Well, that suggests to me that when I rebuild (AND SIMPLIFY!!) this engine, I'll change to good old neoprene V-belts.

 

Old Man here. Old way, chirping, strange noise, Hmmm. Belt?, Bearing in Alt? Bearing in Water pump? Something else? We put brake fluid on the belt, as liberal as possible, covered the fenders so no spray/splash would hurt paint (brake fluid will scar paint forever in a minute). Start engine, noise gone, noise returns after a couple minutes, OK bad belt.

I'm talking V-belt days and yours is serpentine. I know you have put a lot stuff on the belt already, but, try brake fluid test and if goes away and comes back after a few I'd put a new belt on. If noise remains with this test.....I think your good tensioner is making the noise, not at the roller, but where it pivots with coil spring.

 

If yours is chirping you've got something on the way out. Could be the belt, idler pulley bearing, tensioner spring getting weak. Or one of the accessories getting worn.

I'm all for simple, but for me I love the serpentine set up. With the old V-belts I remember constantly having to re-tighten the belts and also remember throwing quite a few belts. With all the serpentine equipped vehicles I've had, I've only had one belt come off. So I don't miss V-belts one bit!!

But if you do change over to v-belts. I'd be interested in all your serpentine parts!! I'm doing just the opposite. I'm converting all my V-belt equipped 240/300's over to serpentine belts.

 

S S going off your prob for second or two.

fordman agree with you 100%. As pulleys and sheaves age, looking at the profile of the V you will see the walls wear sorta U shape. Some worse than others depending on pulley/sheave material. New belts don't do what they should, plus the new belt life ends prematurely with many noises

 

Well Smitty, back in MY day we used a bar of soap rubbed it on the drive surface of the belt.

If you want bona fide belt dressing try a farm supply store. We used it on belt driven farm equipment like feed grinders that were belt driven off a tractor. Everything like that now is probably direct PTO shaft driven...

 

It's really simple: What parts store is going to sell a cheap product like the old belt dressing when they can overcharge you for an expensive new belt?

I have to say my memories of belt dressing are less favorable... I bought the stuff ina tube they sold in the lat '60s and early '70s and thought it was crap. A band-aid to a failing belt which was going to strand me someplace inconvenient. That's why there are 31 flavors...

 

Belt and idler were new six or so months ago. With the old belt off, I spun the air pump, alternator, and PS pump with fingertips and felt no undue resistance or roughness. Don't see how it could be the idler pivot because of the dramatic change in sound when I spray the New Improved Product on the surface of the running belt.


I don't know how you guys had so much trouble with V-belts. I've always got Gates belts (and hoses) when I could. Good for probably four years (never checked this) with re-tightenings every couple of years in that period, big deal. True, the sheaves eventually wear out, but over a longer period than the idler assembly for a serpentine belt. V-belts tolerate a lot more mis-alignment, too, though I fix that when I spot it (and I've seen a couple of wild examples).


(FWIW (zip!!) Similarly because again I do not mind the occasional required adjustment, I like solid lifters, too; adjust once a year and forget 'em, and unlike hydraulics they never get a particle of something in them that screws 'em up, and you can rev them way up without hurting 'em if so inclined. Mechanical simplicity and toughness is a key virtue in my book. Not the only virtue, and might be outweighed by some other factor, but important. Somewhere else on this site I waxed rhapsodic about the dead-simple English "Kent" 1600cc engine that came in an old Ford Fiesta I had. Solid lifters and PUSHRODS, no flapping, whapping drive-chains or belts (disassemble engine at 60Kmi) to turn utterly unnecessary overhead cams. Simple!)

I'm glad you guys put up with me. I get to where I really need to vent and rant about this newfangled gar-bage! And I don't mind you boys telling me I'm full of it.

 

If it's chirping there is a problem somewhere. And with the quality of replacement parts now, being new doesn't mean they are good. I've had new replacement parts that failed before I even got them installed! Did you check the waterpump? How about the Damper? Take a look at the damper with the engine running and see if there is any wobble to it. Does your van have an A/C compressor? Or an idler in place of a A/C compressor?

Hey I'm the guy that gets all the crap for preferring carbs to efi!! So I'm more then willing to give some crap when it comes to V-belt vs. serpentine set up.

 

My belt chirps when the battery is low, creating an extra strain on the alternator on start-up. Try disconnecting the battery overnight and see if the noise is reduced / less. If so, check for a drain on the battery overnight.

 

Good notion, FF, but I have forgotten and left parking lights on for hours, and don't notice any change in chirping.

The chirps might relate to moisture condensation on cold parts. I don't get the chirps when I restart the engine during the day, having run the engine and got things warm in the morning.

I'm not particularly annoyed by nor worried about any of this, except for the New Improved belt dressing replacing the Good Old stuff. And the Dayco article tells me I shouldn't be putting anything, new or old, on a serpentine belt.

 

Revisiting the serpentine squeak-belt. It got to making occasional noises after the engine warmed up. Start chirping, chirp for several seconds, then gradually fade to no noise for a few minutes, then maybe do it again. I wondered if maybe a drip of coolant out of a leaky water pump shaft seal might cause this. But I never have to add coolant. Anyway, I put off doing anything.

About a week ago, the belt finally shredded and came off-track. Got towed four miles home.

Discovered the belt was not my usual Gates as I had thought, but a Dayco. Again, as when I installed this belt new, maybe a year ago to replace another squeaking belt, I spun all the pulleys with my fingertips. Every driven device spins easily, with no rumbling bearings, no lash. The PS pump, which is a fairly recently installed re-man unit, had plenty of fluid, as did the radiator (and the coolant has plenty of fresh anti-freeze, with waterpump lube). The idler, which was new with the belt, feels good, no lash, turns easy.

Being in a hurry as always, I replaced the shredded belt with the previous one, which I had saved. No noises on start-up, belt looked to be tracking well, pulleys all appear to line up, and none appears to be cocked at all. Again, with a modern EFI vehicle and all the attendant crahp, who can really see a thing?

The old belt, re-installed, never made a sound for the first two days. Then it started squeaking during warm-up. Now it squeaks lightly while driving. I have bought a new Gates belt, over forty bucks out the door (modern life!!). Maybe tomorrow or Monday I can do another belt change, and put a straightedge on the pulleys . . . .

 

Can you get a depth gage to check the pulley grooves? Maybe the rebuilt pump came with a worn down pulley?

 

Now that's interesting, FF, I never even thought about that kind of pulley wearing. Is there a way to visually check them (lacking new pulleys for comparison)? Do the crowns of the vees get rounded down? What kind of depth mike/guage has a pointy end, or do you use a regular one in conjunction with some sort of thread wires? Or is there a little screw-on pointy end that fits a dial indicator (could make one)? Funny that I shouldn't have run into a need for a pointy end on a measuring tool in all these years, only a round-anvil bearing mike.

Anyway, why would that make squeaks? Slippage? If so, why is it so intermittent? Why would the recently-replaced new/old belt not make a sound for two days? Come on FF, you're the Ford engineer, and I expect you to have ready answers for everything, LOL!!!

I put the old pulley on the rebuilt pump, never thinking to inspect it for wear. Had it been a vee-belt pulley, I would have. Or might have.