Little History:
Started knocking like a Cummins so I ripped it apart. Passenger side guide was broken into seven pieces. Replaced phasers, installed phaser lockouts (Livernois Motorsports) chains, guides, tensioners. Started and run smoother and quiter than since new......stalled. Check engine light came on with the following codes: P0345, P2195, P2197, P0345. Called Livernois and they said its out of timing.











Is it possible to check the timing by pulling the valve covers? Really don't want to remove the front cover again! I have a couple theory's.

Thanks,
Kirk

 

Kirk:
Don't immediately let this shake your confidence in your ability to place the colored chain links on the marks on the gears. Not a single code you listed has anything to do with being out of time. They are all 'circuit' oriented.
Take your time - check and even clean every electrical connection with electrical contact cleaner and make sure every plug is connected and making good contact.

 

Thanks buddy! I discovered tonight that the vacuum line that runs from the brake booster to the back of the motor is loose. Certainly that would result in some of these codes (2195 & 2197)! Probably pulled it loose during the removal of the driver side valve cover. That will be a PITA to reconnect!

I keep reading about the tight piston to valve clearance on these motors. Seems if I was out of timing it wouldn't have run for 5-10 minutes without imploding if it was out of time. Right?

 

??? Do check that out. But respectfully, I think if that hose came loose there would be at a minimum two symptoms. 1) Brake pedal would be noticeably hard to press 2) I think you would have both P0171 and P0174 codes. That hose connection has a metal bracket bolted to the rear of Bank2 head - and connects to the very bottom drivers side of the intake manifold. I think it unlikely you knocked it off. Having said that, I do think the likely problem is something simple like that.


Note the details of probable causes of DTC's 2195 - 2197:


- Faulty Front Heated Oxygen Sensor Bank X
- Front Heated Oxygen Sensor Bank X harness is open or shorted
- Front Heated Oxygen Sensor Bank X circuit poor electrical connection
- Inappropriate fuel pressure
- Faulty fuel injectors
- Intake air leaks may be faulty
- Vacuums leaks
Read more: P2195 FORD Lack of HO2S-11 Switch Sensor Indicates Lean | AutoCodes



I agree. And you are right, it is an 'interference' motor. Valves WILL hit pistons if seriously out of time. Not if chain is one tooth off on cam sprocket - but yes on crank sprocket. I seriously doubt you couldn't correctly align colored links with sprocket marks. With new chains / guides / tensioners it would be very unlikely it would jump a tooth after running good for any length of time. Plus if chain(s) were off a tooth, you would have an over-retard or over-advance code.


I believe your above codes, and the P0345 is coming from some 'silly' thing like a poor electrical connection or plug not plugged. Anytime something is changed, do a battery reset and relearn so you are NOT dealing with screwed up parameter tables in the PCM caused by a sensor not working correctly or misfires or something like that.


Good luck and let us know how you are progressing

 

Found a vacuum line unhooked on the back of the intake. Was a lot of fun to reconnect! Fired it back up and let it idle for about 10 min with no noise or other issues. Turned it off and restarted it......check engine, P0345. 😡

 

The P0345 code is circuit oriented indicating the PCM has determined the signal pulses from the bank 2 cam position sensor is not reliable, supposed during the first few seconds of cranking. (I think that can mean any one of several things. ie: open circuit, short, grounded, high electrical noise appearing like additional pulses, weak signal below threshold required to register as a pulse. But nevertheless PCM thinks it can't be relied upon for determining the cam position - especially the extra finger on the Phaser.)
That last possibility is especially worrisome where the Livernois kit was installed in the Phaser if the fingers were got bent, damaged - our of alignment where the sensor clearance was too wide or something. I've never done one and do not know whether it could be a likely possibility or not.


But - checking THAT would be a PITA - so I would try to eliminate all the other possibilities first. Note on the 5.4L electrical wiring diagram, page 3 of 6 and 4 of 6 that the 'common' wire on the CPS is common to both CPS, O2 sensors, CHT sensor and a bunch of other stuff. Make sure no wire was pinched under a valve cover, chaffed or something. and ohm out for good continuity to the PCM connector (CPS#2 to pin 44 - Org, and pin 58 - GryRed).
I would also do a battery disconnect reset to clear all screwed up PCM tables after finding that major vacuum leak.
Keep us posted. Good luck

 

Thanks F150Torqued! Makes perfect sense that any of those issues could be the culprit.

I took a little break from chasing this code and tackled another known problem in the oil pan. Upon finding the absolute carnage behind the timing cover I knew the pan and pickup screen needed checked for plastic and aluminum. Sure enough it was a mess!

On that note I wanted to share my experience with removing the pan. This was probably the easiest part of this project so far! I had read in various places and watched a few videos about this with different approaches. I only had to remove the skid plate, crossmember, loosened the sway bar and removed one bolt from the differential (passenger side) and it came right out. No need to remove the driveshaft or the steering rack IMHO.��

 

Oil pan is back on with 6.5 quarts of Motorcraft 5w 20w. Finally got to do a road test and the truck ran better than it has since new! After about a twenty mile ride I turned it off and restarted it. You guessed it! Upon restart the little orange engine returned to the instrument panel and a scan shows P0345. I may end up being one of those guys that keeps driving with a check engine light and just see what happens.

 

@tenforty_2


Sorry to hear the P0345 is still hanging around. Don't know what the effect of running with the code would be on PCM operation. Surely it would have to play into the PCM's ability to maintain proper spark advance. Do not think it would ever cause mechanical harm, but surely could effect fuel economy and performance. Some of that involves what the Livernois program changes. (In fact, I wonder if that could cause this problem if it didn't load properly).


I also find it SHOCKING that you say in post #1 that you "Called Livernois and they said its out of timing". The chains / sprockets are NOT out of time if it runs great. One would think, it being THEIR business, that they could tell you if there was any possibility of causing a P0345 by 'foobaring' insertion of the Livernois lockout wedge. Or if you can put the Phaser back together with the 5th finger pointing the wrong direction. I don't know WHAT code that might cause, but I do not think it would be a 0345. I think it would be an over-retard or over-advance code - BUT the wild card is the Livernois tune - because it has to defeat or KILL those trouble codes.

 

Being a real PITA for sure! As soon as I locate my meter I will go through some of the things that you have suggested.

Livernois was quick to say that it was together wrong and it needed to come apart. At the end of the day I may have to do that, but not gonna do it just yet. I am going to call them back this week and ask if putting the lock in the wrong slot could cause this. Supposedly the lock is supposed to fit "tightly" n one of the spots and loosely in others. Felt about the same in all of the spots to me!
Followed the directions provided in this video:
Have found a ton of posts on this board and others, but nobody ever updates what they found. I have to assume they are still driving around with a check engine light on. 😀

 

Called Livernois today and that was a big waste of time! Evident from their phone tree options technical support is not a big concern to them since "technical support" isn't even an option. All choices have something to do with sales. In short they advised that their product could not be responsible for any such codes. In hindsight I would not have spent $700 with them!


I found this to be a rather interesting read: http://www.fordf150.net/forums/viewt...=P0345#p709305
and this site :ford tech, ford techs, ford mechanics, ford technicians, automotive repair, technicians, union technicians and mechanics, auto advice, auto support forums, automotive technicians, diesel techs, diesel technicians, power stroke technicians, auto techs

 

@tenforty_2
The "interesting read" BLOWS my theory about P0345 all to hell. I never THOUGHT it had to do with anything other than a PCM determination that cam positioning signals were 'unreliable' - generally due to electrical integrity. If being a tooth off can produce a P0340 series DTC, what the heck are P0010 - 11 or P0021 - 22 for? Or what are the difference?


Back to the question in your original post in this thread. "Is it possible to check the timing by pulling the valve covers?"


I think it might be possible, but very tedious, marking chain links and turning the engine over -forward and backward - while counting links. --Given that the chain has an odd number of links (61) to the crank sprockets 21 teeth and cam sprockets 42 teeth, the chain moves one/half link position for each revolution if you're going in only one direction, and that totally screws you up. If you decide to try this, I'd like to try to help work out how we could mark cam sprocket and chain links, then turn the engine forward a ways counting 30 links, - and then mark a link - and go backwards while counting 30 links to known crank keyway position on the harmonic balancer. I think you could tell if it was off a link, knowing there should be 30 links both directions from the crank sprocket mark - NOT counting the link that stradles the crank timing mark. The attached drawing helps visualize it.


What a PITA

 

Yea these engines have undoubtedly caused many a man to cuss and drink way more than is healthy! The video in that other link explains how they actually place a 5.4 (2005 F150 ironically) one tooth out of time and started it while connected to a diagnostic computer. The chart from the scope clearly shows one of the CPS firing out of sequence. Pretty neat test.

Iam now up to 100 miles with no noise and runs great!

 

Just wanted to update the post with some new information. I opened it back up with plans to replace lash adjusters, followers, oil pump and to check the timing. The timing was correct! I replaced all of the other parts and it is alive again! It is still a little noisy, but no codes and great oil pressure.


On a side note, I found some gunk in one of the oiling holes for the cam (right side back saddle). Had to spray some WD on it and used a piece of rubber hose hooked to a vacuum cleaner to suck it out. The engine otherwise was about as clean as you might expect with 148K. Not sure what that blockage was all about.


Many will disagree, but I will be replacing the 5w 20w with 10w 40w rotella at the next change. Pretty confident that this will quieten it down. Many thanks to those that contributed to the post! As always, FTE rocks!!

 

GREAT NEWS. NO CODES.


I was pretty confident you had it timed correctly. I think it is usually the fact the marks don't line up again after moving the engine or some silly symptom that SPOOKS the self styled mechanic, and then we start doubting ourselves.


ANYTHING in a passage-way would be a problem. Glad you found it and removed it. Those little VCT screens are SOOO fine. And the VCT Valve body has another one of the same kind of screens inside them!!


Good luck