I brought my van in for alignment. My camber is out of spec by -.9 and -.7. Here are the numbers:




The alignment shop quoted me $100 for the parts and $80 for the labor to add the camber kit. The mechanic said I could buy my own and save money. He said to get the 1 to 1.5 degree kit. I found this kit from and he said it will work. Moog tech said to buy this if I install myself.

Any suggestions? One Moog tech said to get the kit from the shop and let them deal with it. He must know know about the FTE forum. We don't shy away from most work around here. I don't feel like paying another $180 to get this running. I paid $180 for life time alignment so I can fix things when they need it. Ball joints and tie rods are solid, but showing some signs of age-I may get another 50k out of them.

 

The first Moog part is just the normal or typical camber bushing used to change in relatively small increments---I think those are adjustable through a 3/4* of change max; if more change is needed another bushing is used.

The second link is useful when changing the caster to +5* or more---oddly enough the factory spec allows up to +7* and still be in spec??? Most factory type camber bushings aren't made to add or change that measurement to the more desireable +5*

All that being said the second link does require a bit more knowledge to install and set properly----most so-called alignment/tire shop combination outfits typically don't have the expertise or interest to install that type. Check with your shop first to see if they've used that type before.

Also make sure your van is loaded as it would normally be during its daily drives. That gives the alignment tech a better idea how much adjustment is needed to be within spec. Curb weights significantly different from your DD habits could lead to a less than optimal alignment and slightly more tire wear.

PS: Looks like your guys use the Hunter alignment equipment.

 

@jwa thanks for the advice. I don't think the tire shop understands the second adjustable cam bushing he said to go with a 1-1.5 degree bushing. We load the van with 1000 pounds of camping gear including passenger weight.

How do I remove the old camber bushing? It will save me $150. I am installing new brakes at the same time. You sent me a link for Permatex synthetic lube. Do I use this on the brake caliper piston?

 

Camber bushings are held in place at the top of the spindle with a pinch bolt---when that is loosened and assuming the existing bushing isn't partially seized in place it would or should twist out. I'm assuming you're asking with thoughts towards replacing them with the other Moog parts shown in the second link?

If the link I sent for brake caliper lube was Permatex #24110 that can be used on the pistons etc but its most useful on the caliper slide pins or bolts--those seem to be often overlooked and neglected leading to issues with caliper operation and function.

Am I guessing correctly you'll be DIY replacing the existing camber bushings with the multi-range Moog parts to save that money? If yes then I'd highly recommend giving strong consideration to doing the ball joints at the same time. Removing them DIY then finding a local auto machine or chassis shop and hire them to press those in for you.

OR check with AutoZone, O'Reilly's etc to see if they rent or loan a ball joint press---plenty of YouTube videos how to install Ford-type ball joints.

Be careful, fully support your van at all times!!

 

I don't want to get the Moog camber bushing that have room for a lot of adjustment. The alignment shop said to get approximately + 2 degrees adjustment. I want to be able to slap them in and then let the alignment shop adjust them as I paid them $180 for life time adjustment. What is a quick and dirty method to get this rig on the road and back to the alignment shop without me having to spend hours adjusting the bushing?

@JWA, good idea about replacing the ball joints. They appear to be solid.

I am replacing parts right now that could potentially leave me stranded. This van has the problematic 6.0 diesel. Most items were addressed before I took over ownership. However, all the repair records were lost.

Since I have a lot of parts removed off the front end, and if I can install the camber sleeves myself, I may take a stab at the ball joints.

 

Well done. My local shop doesn't do lifetime alignments on Twin I beams.

 

That is the first lube I've seen that is OK for pistons and sliders.
Back when I worked in the brake shop we just used brake fluid to install the pistons. Never heard of a piston lube. Is this for parking brake (dry) pistons or the hydraulic (wet) pistons? Or both?

Good info.

 

The ball joint press I borrowed from Autozone did the job on our '93 E150. The worst part was the weight of every blasted part. There weren't stuck or corroded parts despite the van spending 20 winters in Boise and Salt Lake City.

Sixto
93 E150 Chateau 5.8 194K miles

 

I live in a condo and do not have a vice for a ball joint press. I grew up with a garage as big as my condo. Air tools, work benches, etc. I thought this was normal. Not so in California. The epa here probably has regulations for air tools. Lol!

 

I live in Ca. and have a 3 car garage.

 

I will be over this weekend for some mega auto repair.

I grew up in Minnesota with land, sheds, garage, and lots of tools.

 

Two years ago, my buddy engineer Dan and myself replaced tie rods, ball joints, wheel bearings, and brake calipers in our vans. I had the E150 and he had the E350. An alignment shop installed a camber kit on my E150 and different alignment shop told Dan he needed a camber kit for his van.

Here is what Dan told me today. He said my camber may be out of spec because of wear in the ball joints that I cannot see or feel. When he replaced his ball joints without adding a camber kit, the camber came back into spec. It's his belief that adding a camber kit is like kicking the problem down the road.

I know that eventually I will have to replace the ball joints. JWA advised to do it while I have everything apart. I can have the steering knuckles removed in 30 minutes or less per side and walk them down the street to a shop to have the ball joints removed and replaced.

Any thoughts on bad ball joints causing the camber alignment problem? It makes sense to me. I crawled under Dan's van today after church and he had me look at the twin i beam suspension to see how it operates.

 

My understanding its pretty much suitable for most every brake part that moves. My concern with lube on calipers etc is compatibility with the rubber bits including the piston seals. This stuff is the do-it-all solution, I've seen it in use by more than a few mechanics I work around frequently.

It's cheap enough too---kinda shocked me so fairly priced.

Ball joints certainly affect everything up front----they are the points of contact between the wheel/tire and rest of the body/frame/suspension. That's just one reason they're so prone to wear. Every other part can be new but worn ball joints still greatly affect handling and tire wear.

And also keep in mind the camber bushings fit over the ball joint stems so wear in any part of the ball joint assembly definitely affects measurable caster and camber.

Honestly if it were my van ball joints would be the first things tackled especially if every other steering part seems to be acceptable and not yet problematic. Of course when those are being replaced its almost impossible resisting the urge to replace everything all at the same time---but that's just me. I lose sleep knowing I've re-used parts that are cheap enough new and could be trouble spots at the most inconvenient of times.

I say change ball joints first if its not in the budget (time or money) to do everything all at once.

 

I put the ball joints in my wishlist parts cart on Amazon. I need to call around today for a shop to install them on steering knuckle. Funny how the brake job became an alignment and ball joint job.

 

I replaced the ball joints in our E150 in the driveway with the borrowed Autozone press, a doormat and my foot and hold things steady. Garage? I don't have one. Vice? Nothing that big nor anything to bolt it to. E350 could be a different story.

Sixto
93 E150 Chateau 5.8 194K miles