4A operation is terrible
Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,169
Likes: 29
From: Bismarck, ND
Something,
I'm sorry to hear about your driveline issues. I'm curious, has it done this from "Day 1", or was this something that didn't surface for xxx number of miles?
A '17 Expedition is on our short list of candidates to replace my wife's 4Runner next year. I was curious if this was something that could be uncovered during the initial test drive, or not?
I see there's some others reporting no problems with their auto 4x4 systems, so was wondering if you possibly have a "lemon", or if it really is a system wide type of problem.
What has your dealer done for you about this problem over the last year? Just curious how the dealer support is handling this type of driveline issue.
Thanks.
I'm sorry to hear about your driveline issues. I'm curious, has it done this from "Day 1", or was this something that didn't surface for xxx number of miles?
A '17 Expedition is on our short list of candidates to replace my wife's 4Runner next year. I was curious if this was something that could be uncovered during the initial test drive, or not?
I see there's some others reporting no problems with their auto 4x4 systems, so was wondering if you possibly have a "lemon", or if it really is a system wide type of problem.
What has your dealer done for you about this problem over the last year? Just curious how the dealer support is handling this type of driveline issue.
Thanks.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,169
Likes: 29
From: Bismarck, ND
Well I know this is an older thread, so the OP may not check back often. I'm only just now starting to seriously research a new vehicle for Mrs. Slim, and the Expedition has made the "short list".
I have other concerns about the platform too (mostly engine), but I don't want to hijack the OP's thread about those. This has been the first I've read about this specific problem, but I'm still pretty early on in my research.
Was also wondering if there were any TSB's related to his vehicle problems, which is why I asked about dealer support (in his case). Hopefully he sees this and posts back.
I have other concerns about the platform too (mostly engine), but I don't want to hijack the OP's thread about those. This has been the first I've read about this specific problem, but I'm still pretty early on in my research.
Was also wondering if there were any TSB's related to his vehicle problems, which is why I asked about dealer support (in his case). Hopefully he sees this and posts back.
Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,222
Likes: 323
From: SW PA
I had the expy in the yard the other day in 4A and it experienced the same issue. This time there was no snow on the ground. With this, I was able to confirm that the 4A function is for sure not engaging the front diff as designed and under certain load conditions. It tries but it appears the transfer case clutch has an issue. 4H seems a little funky to me and 4lo seems normal but I have not really tested it to any real limit.
I made an appointment with the dealer to drop it off this week as it should be covered under my CPO warranty.
I agree seems like I have a broke one!!!!...
Will report back what the stealership says later this week or next week.
I made an appointment with the dealer to drop it off this week as it should be covered under my CPO warranty.
I agree seems like I have a broke one!!!!...
Will report back what the stealership says later this week or next week.
Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,222
Likes: 323
From: SW PA
Vehicle (41k miles) was dropped off Wednesday morning for the following:
1.) Shudder in third gear under certain throttle positions.
2.) 4A engagement issue and also occasional 4H issue. 4L seemed to require enormous throttle input to get moving like there is binding in the transfer case. (however no clunking noises)
3.) 12v aux power at dash malfunctioning
Dealer came back to me the next day with:
1.) Torque Convertor needing replacement
2.) 4wd Engagement solenoid malfunction requiring replacement
3.) Need a fuse
I don't agree with items 1 or 2 and didn't even spend 1 sec on item 3.
If torque convertor issue the shudder would be prominent in all gears and likely idle as well - it is not.
The transfer case seems to be FUBARD since there is issues in all 4wd selections.
However, we shall see upon pickup next week.
I also took a video of it malfunctioning but do not have a youtube account to upload it.
The dealer doesn't have any slippery surfaces for me to show them the 4A inop so I took one myself and showed them the crunch and munch and abrupt engagement.
1.) Shudder in third gear under certain throttle positions.
2.) 4A engagement issue and also occasional 4H issue. 4L seemed to require enormous throttle input to get moving like there is binding in the transfer case. (however no clunking noises)
3.) 12v aux power at dash malfunctioning
Dealer came back to me the next day with:
1.) Torque Convertor needing replacement
2.) 4wd Engagement solenoid malfunction requiring replacement
3.) Need a fuse
I don't agree with items 1 or 2 and didn't even spend 1 sec on item 3.
If torque convertor issue the shudder would be prominent in all gears and likely idle as well - it is not.
The transfer case seems to be FUBARD since there is issues in all 4wd selections.
However, we shall see upon pickup next week.
I also took a video of it malfunctioning but do not have a youtube account to upload it.
The dealer doesn't have any slippery surfaces for me to show them the 4A inop so I took one myself and showed them the crunch and munch and abrupt engagement.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,169
Likes: 29
From: Bismarck, ND
I hope it works out for you Something. That's a long time to go with issues on your Expy. If this somehow doesn't fix everything, I hope you stay on them about it.
Good luck.
Good luck.
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Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,222
Likes: 323
From: SW PA
Just picked up vehicle after 1 week:
Issue:
Transmission shudder
Result:
New torque convertor, new front pump, forward clutches replaced, new transmission case (not sure why), complete system flush
Made a note that said it was determined a rebuild was cheaper than replacement so that decision was made.
Issue:
4A and other 4wd issues
Result:
Still waiting on module that is on national back order.
I hope it doesn't snow before it comes in.
New Issue:
Light contact on my rear bumper while in their possession resulting in broken black plastic cap atop of rear bumper cover and light scratches in the bumper cover at point of impact.
Result:
TBD
Perfect.
Good news is indeed the trans feels way better now. I will keep an eye out for leaks.
Issue:
Transmission shudder
Result:
New torque convertor, new front pump, forward clutches replaced, new transmission case (not sure why), complete system flush
Made a note that said it was determined a rebuild was cheaper than replacement so that decision was made.
Issue:
4A and other 4wd issues
Result:
Still waiting on module that is on national back order.
I hope it doesn't snow before it comes in.
New Issue:
Light contact on my rear bumper while in their possession resulting in broken black plastic cap atop of rear bumper cover and light scratches in the bumper cover at point of impact.
Result:
TBD
Perfect.
Good news is indeed the trans feels way better now. I will keep an eye out for leaks.
Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,222
Likes: 323
From: SW PA
Well certainly glad I didn't hold my breath.
Turns out that an electrical module replacement doesn't magically correct mechanical issues. Who woulda thunk it?
Picked up expedition a couple days ago and with light snowfall yesterday tested 4A again in the yard with the exact same result as when I first took it in and told them the issue was internal to the transfer case/4wd system.
4A transition from 2wd to 4wd has a definite engagement issue.
It does not seem like a front diff issue but a transfer case issue.
So tomorrow it goes back in for the same thing.
Turns out that an electrical module replacement doesn't magically correct mechanical issues. Who woulda thunk it?
Picked up expedition a couple days ago and with light snowfall yesterday tested 4A again in the yard with the exact same result as when I first took it in and told them the issue was internal to the transfer case/4wd system.
4A transition from 2wd to 4wd has a definite engagement issue.
It does not seem like a front diff issue but a transfer case issue.
So tomorrow it goes back in for the same thing.
New User
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Ford 4A VS Chevy Auto 4WD
I couldn't help but create an account so I could chime in on your thread!
Recently took ownership of a 2016 F150 Lariat Sport with 4A. I was so excited, until I had the first opportunity to try it out in our Canadian winter with slippery conditions.
I have owned multiple 4wd trucks, a 2004 Chrysler with AWD, and multiple Chevy Tahoe's with Auto 4WD. Our current 2014 Tahoe works extremely well and seamless when engaging all wheels for traction, as did our 2008 Tahoe.
In comparison on the exact same slippery sections and conditions with the F150, it always needs to slip first, then engage all four wheels for traction. By that time, the truck is already losing control. I read somewhere else on the internet a person refer to it as Slip and Grip, which is exactly what is happening.
So in comparison to my current Tahoe, the F150 does not even come close regarding 4A and how smooth and seamless it should be.
I'm unclear if this is supposed to be the norm for the F150, or if mine requires some attention from the stealership.
Looking forward to an update with how you make out with your vehicle!
Recently took ownership of a 2016 F150 Lariat Sport with 4A. I was so excited, until I had the first opportunity to try it out in our Canadian winter with slippery conditions.
I have owned multiple 4wd trucks, a 2004 Chrysler with AWD, and multiple Chevy Tahoe's with Auto 4WD. Our current 2014 Tahoe works extremely well and seamless when engaging all wheels for traction, as did our 2008 Tahoe.
In comparison on the exact same slippery sections and conditions with the F150, it always needs to slip first, then engage all four wheels for traction. By that time, the truck is already losing control. I read somewhere else on the internet a person refer to it as Slip and Grip, which is exactly what is happening.
So in comparison to my current Tahoe, the F150 does not even come close regarding 4A and how smooth and seamless it should be.
I'm unclear if this is supposed to be the norm for the F150, or if mine requires some attention from the stealership.
Looking forward to an update with how you make out with your vehicle!
Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,222
Likes: 323
From: SW PA
4A continues to be absolute garbage.
Dealer said the issue was that the traction control was over-sensitive but Ford told them it was not tuneable. They compared our expedition to another one on the lot.
My expy has an open rear diff and a seamingly really strong and really sensitive ABS pump. So with very light throttle input on a slippery surface the vehicle just sits there and the ABS pump fires strong enough at each wheel that the hp produced is not strong enough to overcome the brakes.
Increase throttle and it will start to spin other wheels and tires while firing the he!! out of the abs pump.
I did some subsequent tests with the ABS pump fuse pulled and the issue completely went away.
It is a tuning issue that is possibly not seen in later 15's but for sure would be reduced if it had a trac-loc rear diff.
I told my wife to just use 4H because 4A is complete and utter garbage.
The suburban we had as a loaner was completely flawless in 4A and 6" of snow.
Dealer said the issue was that the traction control was over-sensitive but Ford told them it was not tuneable. They compared our expedition to another one on the lot.
My expy has an open rear diff and a seamingly really strong and really sensitive ABS pump. So with very light throttle input on a slippery surface the vehicle just sits there and the ABS pump fires strong enough at each wheel that the hp produced is not strong enough to overcome the brakes.
Increase throttle and it will start to spin other wheels and tires while firing the he!! out of the abs pump.
I did some subsequent tests with the ABS pump fuse pulled and the issue completely went away.
It is a tuning issue that is possibly not seen in later 15's but for sure would be reduced if it had a trac-loc rear diff.
I told my wife to just use 4H because 4A is complete and utter garbage.
The suburban we had as a loaner was completely flawless in 4A and 6" of snow.
Junior User
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: Pike Creek area
Just read through your thread, and I can't help but chime in and agree also.
So sorry you have had issues. I have never had much faith in dealership service writers....Some are great, but some just downright have no clue!
I have a '16 Limited Expy with the 3.5L and Limited slip rear (3.73's I think)
I have the 22's with very *****ty all season tires. Even with the few inches of snow we've seen here in Delaware this season, I wasn't very impressed with the handling at all. My solution is similar to yours: 4A is only used in light rain/wet roads. 4H comes on as soon as the snow sticks. Right now this truck is my wife's daily driver, and I am fortunate that she understands that the road has to be "slippery" to be able to use 4H, or damage may occur.
On a side note...I bought the truck as a dealer demo....it had 6500 miles. (got a great deal, too!) However, it was in the shop within the first week. Grinding coming from the front end. Dealer replaced right front hub, and I think it needs to go back for the left one too. Also, we hear an awful "rubbing" noise from inside the cab anytime we make a sharp turn in either direction. I am thinking it's the LS, but would love to know if anyone else has experienced.
So sorry you have had issues. I have never had much faith in dealership service writers....Some are great, but some just downright have no clue!
I have a '16 Limited Expy with the 3.5L and Limited slip rear (3.73's I think)
I have the 22's with very *****ty all season tires. Even with the few inches of snow we've seen here in Delaware this season, I wasn't very impressed with the handling at all. My solution is similar to yours: 4A is only used in light rain/wet roads. 4H comes on as soon as the snow sticks. Right now this truck is my wife's daily driver, and I am fortunate that she understands that the road has to be "slippery" to be able to use 4H, or damage may occur.
On a side note...I bought the truck as a dealer demo....it had 6500 miles. (got a great deal, too!) However, it was in the shop within the first week. Grinding coming from the front end. Dealer replaced right front hub, and I think it needs to go back for the left one too. Also, we hear an awful "rubbing" noise from inside the cab anytime we make a sharp turn in either direction. I am thinking it's the LS, but would love to know if anyone else has experienced.
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 496
Likes: 6
From: Arizona
Just a work of advice based on a long-ago experience with a Ford dealer doing internal transmission repairs: Ask if they added an external, in-line filter to the cooler return line OR if they will. The line mechanic may not have done an adequate job of flushing all debris from the cooler and lines and it could eventually cause a problem as it did on one of my son's trucks.