Hi guys. I'm new to the Ford world, so a lot of this is new to me. Here's a little history of my acquisition. Forgive me if I run a little long on this first post.

I won my 2008 F250SD 4x4 Supercab with the 5.4 and automatic on Govdeals last Thursday. I went to check it out in person before I placed my final bid. The brakes were weak, so he wouldn't let me drive it around the lot (liability issue). It was advertised as skipping and rough idle. It fired up fine and acted as described. I pulled it forward and back - no other issues. I hooked up the code reader and got multiple misfires along with the cylinders misfiring, one bank was rich and the other was lean.

On the day I picked it up, I wiggled the injector and coil clips and harnesses and checked for vacuum leaks. It started running a LITTLE better, but that's all I could do at the lot.

Got it home and removed the coils one by one and checked the spark - all had a good spark, but 3 of them had gray boots - the rest had brown boots. I noticed the gray boots were slightly shorter than the brown. I replaced the coils as I tested them. I used a Noid tester to test the injector harness along with the screwdriver to listen to the injectors - all good there. I cleared the codes. I fired the truck back up and it ran a LOT smoother! Shortly after, I got the CEL and 304 code. I went under the hood and started playing around with the harnesses. I unplugged the VCT solenoid with no change. I unplugged the #4 coil - no change (this was one of the gray boot coils).

Next, I shut the engine down and switched the #4 and #5 coils (the #5 was a brown boot). I fired it back up and it smoothed out a little more, but after about 20 seconds of running, it started clattering like a rocker arm was loose! I tracked it down to the #4 cylinder. Now, every time I fire it up, about 10-15 seconds later, it starts making the same noise.

The truck takes a little while to fire up (like 7-8 seconds) and barely runs for a few seconds, then idles rough and still has a slight skip with the noise on #4. The CEL has not come back on.

I bought a new Motorcraft SP-509 plug with thoughts of replacing just that one for testing purposes for the moment - I will be replacing ALL of them once I get the problem fixed. I am taking this shortcut bc I have been reading the horror stories about breaking plugs (or is that a problem on a 05/2008 engine since it has the updated heads with full thread plugs?).

Anyhow, I have been reading and watching so many videos on this sound that I don't know where to start now. The main things I have found that people said solve the noise is VCT solenoid, phasers, replace ALL timing components and tensioners, replace lifters, replace rockers, run engine cleaner through it, etc. You can tell why my head is spinning! Should I look at the VCT solenoids first(pull the one on that bank and check/clean it, switch with the other bank to see if the noise switches banks? Replace the gray boot coils and ALL of the plugs? Pull the valve cover?

So that's where I'm at with my new (project) truck. Where should I post/ask questions about the brakes?

Thanks guys!

 

I felt pretty good when I got home from work this morning and the temp was about 54, so I decided to do some more troubleshooting. First up was changing out the spark plug on #4. I grabbed my 9/16" spark plug socket, 3/8" ratchet, an assortment of extensions and the 7mm socket attached to the 1/4" drive ratchet/extension. After I got the coil off I put the extension and 9/16" socket in the hole - wouldn't fit the plug! I remembered that some other plugs were 16mm, so I grabbed one of those - seemed too big. So I grabbed a 14mm, 15mm and 5/8" to keep from making a million trips back to the shop - nothing would grab the plug! Of course this is on #4 and theres no way in hell to see down in the head without a scope or mirror, so I left well enough alone and went inside.

Just for *****s and giggles, I pulled the coil off of #1 and checked the plug - 9/16". Put the ratchet on it and it wouldn't budge (and I put a fair amount of pressure on it). I put the coil back on and did the same on #5 - same thing. Crap! I thought the newer engines' plugs were supposed to come out easier. I'll save this fun job for a day when I'm off!

I put my tools up and went inside - today's not gonna be the day!

 

before you go and change the spark plugs....I would run a couple of tanks with Techron fuel additive concentrate through it. (techron is approved by FMOC) This should loosen any carbon around the spark plugs & hopefully allow for easier removal. Provided it being driven.

the early 3valve engines did have a 2 piece design them... not sure if they changed them in 08' or 09'...in any case there is a redesign.. more info>>https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...tion.html....I guess what I'm not sure of if this spark plug design was kept to the F150's or did it include everything with a 5.4, noting that yours is a F250sd, has to do with emissions and the heavier trucks didn't need to comply with that...er something?

It might be that you've some crud built up around the spark plug heads ...and the spark plug socket are not getting good bite....some have taken a chunk of copper tubing just a bit bigger then the spark plug and just a bit taller then the well they sit in ( maybe a 3/4"). on one end cut 2-4 rough teeth in the rim of the copper tube, ( kinda like a holesaw ), on the other end drill a hole through it to let you twist it with a Philips screw driver...maybe every 90deg.... The idea is to loosen up the crud around the sparkplug...remove your "crud loosing gadget" and give it blast of air to help blow out the now loosened crud from around the sparkplug...repeat as needed. This if nothing will help for any penetrating oil /spray to get to where it can do the most good to aid in doing this fun job.

 

Thanks the reply e&b!

Yeah, unfortunately the ISN'T mobile now - I'm pretty lad leery about it while it's making the rattling noise, so running a couple of enriched tankful's through it is out of the question right now. From what I've been reading, mine has the updated heads with the full thread spark plugs (5/2008 engine)? So, if this is true, there shouldn't be problem with breaking the plugs - or am I wrong about that? They just seemed REAL tight bc I was putting a good bit of torque on the 3/8" ratchet the other day.

Ok, so tomorrow morning after work the weather is supposed to be nice AND I borrowed a fiber optic scope a friend. So I guess I'll be able to look into the plug hole to see what's going on in there. I appreciate the hole cleaning tool idea - might need make one. It's funny bc a coworker suggested using a long screwdriver to get in there and twist it around to see if there's anything in it.

I read somewhere else where a guy sprayed Kroil in the hole and it wicked in past fully seated plugs. He was then able to easily turn the plugs out without ANY breaking. Supposedly, Kroil is able to penetrate cracks as small as a millionth of inch! I have a can, so I am going to give that a shot while I am pulling the VCT solenoid on that bank.

Thanks again the reply and suggestions!
Matt

 

yep that Kroil is pretty good stuff, we got it at work too.

Some have ran the engine to get it warmed up, then shut it off...then pop of the COP's (Coil On Plug) and squirt some PB blaster, or liquid wrench or Kroil down the spark plug well and let it cool down and letting the penitrent work over night and then change the spark plugs the next day.

I thought that read somewhere, not sure where, that the early redesigned spark plugs ( the ones getting away from the 2 piece design) were still a bit too large on the tube area just under the electrode where the spark would jump and before the threaded area...that would still offer a troubled spot to bind on removal. so might want to check that...I guess I'm saying don't be surprised if you might still break a plug, even if you have a later "redesigned head" . Others have stated that they have to slowly work the spark plugs back and forth and gradually backing the spark plugs out to get them out. Even if you break one off its not the end of the world...there is tools available to help get those things out, without taking the head off. Just don't get in a hurry, take your time and you'll get it. Having a bore scope camera is a good idea, so when the spark plug comes out, you can check the threads and if anything else is in the cylinder that shouldn't be

The rattling sounds your getting like classic phaser /tensioner issues too.

 

Good idea - that might be what I'll do in the morning (warm it up, spray Kroil and let her sit 'til Tuesday morning). I still have 3 more nights to work, so I'm not in a big hurry to get a lot done until I get off. The rest of my plugs are supposed to be delivered tomorrow, so I can do them all if the Kroil trick works. I can see where working the plug back and forth would act like a tap to clear the carbon away to keep you from breaking the plug - will keep that in mind.

Man, I really didn't want a reality check about the phasers, but I guess that since I got such a good deal on the truck it won't be the end of the world if I can do the work myself! It didn't have the rattling when I ran it at the warehouse before I bid on it though - just started while I was trying to diagnose and get rid of the skipping. It seems like the whole bank would be rattling if it was a bad phaser. But I'm not a mechanic and that's why I'm here - trying to gain some knowledge from you guys so that one day I can help someone else out!

Thanks again,
Matt

 

I'd probably do the same thing as you, getting it to run smoother. then address the other things.
How many miles are on this unit?
With the phasers it seems Ubber important to check the oil pump pick-up screen in the oil pan. (Especially if miles are higher- 100k and up)...the timing chain guides, a high wear plastic, like to shred and that can migrate to the oil pan and cutting off oil supply. just one more thing to check...not sure if you could get the bore score down there or not?? maybe with the front timing cover off?

 

Well, I was able to pull ALL of the plugs out without any problem or penetrating oil this morning! They had been replaced before and had antiseize on the threads, so good for me! I found a couple of problems when I pulled the old plugs though:1)They put Champion 9406's in it, 2)Nothing wrong with the #4 plug and 3)The #2 plug ground electrode and porcelain were GONE and the center electrode was welded to the plug body! After I pulled the #4 plug out, I replaced it with a Motorcraft Sp-509. It fired up very quickly and idled much smoother - the rattling is still there. I only had the one plug to install (the rest will be here today), so I will have to wait until tomorrow to see if she'll run right with all new plugs. Fingers crossed that the missing electrode didn't screw something up on it's way out of the exhaust valve. Also hoping that something contacting the electrode isn't the reason it broke off!

Oh yeah, I used the bore scope and found a very small pebble and a piece of (what looked like) black rubber band in the hole that was keeping the spark plug socket from going down on the plug. I used a long, thin flat head screwdriver to loosen it and air to blow it out.

 

Glad this is proceeding so well for you---could have been a disaster from what I've read about the 3V heads.

Time after time I've advocated anti-seize on plug threads and this is just one more great example why its so useful.

 

Well, at least I am identifying some problem areas anyway. I replaced all of the plugs this morning and fired it up. It ran smoother to start with. The rattle started. Started idling rougher and a slight skip. I let it idle until it warmed up a little. The rattle got quieter as it warmed up. I decided to drive it up and down my driveway. I drove about a 1/4 mile and turned around to head back - it almost cut off at idle. I pulled into the wet field to check to see if the 4wd worked. While I was locking the hubs it stumbled a couple of times and almost cut off. I drove back to the shop and let it idle for a few minutes. The rattle was till there along with the 300-304 codes and the p010. I think when I unplugged the VCT solenoid is when the p010 code was thrown - idle didn't change when unplugged. I'm starting to come to the reality that it is the phaser and/or timing chain. At least the 4wd engaged easily in low and high and back to 2wd!

 

OK, a little update

The engine problems still aren't completely sorted - haven't had a whole lot of time to work on it.
1) The rattle is almost COMPLETELY gone - maybe it sat for a while and the lifters bled down and it took a while to pump back up?
2) There is still a very faint tapping that is probably what you guys are saying the phasers sound like - I can live with that until it gets worse.
3) I am getting a P0207 (and sometimes a 206) code. The injectors ohm out good and they are clicking - just getting the code and no power. I just thought about simply taking the plug out to see if it's wet - DUH! If it's not, will a plugged injector cause a 207 code?
4) Getting a P0302 code. Switched coils from #3 to #2 - still getting the code. Pulled the plug and it's wet and doesn't look like it has been firing since I put it in. The gap was slightly closed from factory setting (maybe .038"). Pretty sure I gapped ALL of them before I put them in.

The plan for today (if it warms up a little) is to use a spark tester on #2 - if I have a spark, put one of the OLD plugs back in to see if that works. No spark, switch coils from #5 to #2. If I still have a misfire, I will check the compression and go from there.

Maybe I need to pull ALL of the injectors and clean them?

 

I went out this morning and switched coil #5 to #2. Misfire went away - of course it ran smoother. Still got the 207 code. I let it idle for a while. You could see the rich exhaust and hear the skip. I am guessing it is putting too much fuel in the cylinder. I checked the codes again - this time (after idling for about 5 minutes) I got 206, 207 AND the 302 was back!

I pulled the #2 plug and it looked as if it had been firing but was wet. I pulled #6 and #7 - they were wet, not the normal tan you would expect on a correctly running engine. I put them back in and ran the engine again at idle for a couple of minutes. Checked the codes - got 206, 207, 300, 302 AND 303. This time I pulled the #2 plug, installed my spark tester and checked the spark. It was sparking as it should.

Next, I grabbed my compression tester and proceded to pull out the #2 plug. Guess what - I don't have an adapter that fits the hole! I put my tools away and cracked open a cold one - had enough for today. I'm about to throw in the towel and take it to a shop.

Some things I have observed over the past few days attempting to fix this truck:
1) It has new (larger, 2 1/4" maybe) catalytic converters on it.
2) Oxygen sensors look new too, so maybe it has had a problem for a while and they plugged the converters, then gave up on fixing it?
3) Problem area is random, but only affecting 2 cylinders on injection side (#6 & 7), and 2 cylinders on the firing side (#2 & 3). Could this be caused by something else - the bad cylinders directly across from each other.
4) These cylinders have wet plugs, so they are not firing correctly, but ARE getting fuel.
5) It throws all 5 codes (206, 207, 300, 302 and 303) when you attempt to drive it (put it under load. Hardly any power, like all 4 of these cylinders are misfiring.

Do these engines have the cylinder cutout for fuel efficiency at cruising speeds? Could this possibly be the problem if they do? I'm just jabbing in the dark for anything to check now - BEFORE I throw in the towel and have to bend over when I take it to a shop (no offense to any shop owners here - I just like to fix stuff myself when I can, PLUS I'm cheap! I know your time and expertise is not free!)

 

I was finally able to get back out to work on the truck again today. Work, Christmas and rain have kept me away from it for the last week. My wife gave me a new OBD scanner for Christmas and I've been waiting to use it, hoping it would give me a little more insight into the truck's problems than the little $40 unit I have been using. All I was getting out of it was P0300, 302, 303 and 207 codes.

Today, my thought was to drain the gas tank because I was thinking that I had some water in it - random misfires that I have been chasing and wet (not wet black) with what looked like gas/water. Problem was that I don't have anywhere to get under the truck without laying in the mud!

The next thing I was thinking was that since the #7 injector was showing bad, but it was clicking and ohmed out good - must be plugged. So I pulled the rail and pulled the #6 and 7 injectors to compare them. They both looked ok, so I hooked up a motorcycle battery with alligator clips to it, poured some injector cleaner in it, put some air pressure on it and touched the battery post. Good spray pattern. I reversed the flow to get the cleaner through in that direction - repeated a few times to clean it. Then I hooked up the #7 injector. It sprayed out of 2 of the 4 holes acouple of times, then stopped - plugged up. I ran through the same process as the other one and got it spraying out of 2 of the 4 holes again, but couldn't get it to spray out of all.

I put everything back together and fired up the engine - the scanner showed P0206 and 207! I pulled out the big screwdriver and listened - they weren't clicking! I played around with the connectors and they started back work and the engine smoothed out! The codes went away.

It was running so much better that I decided to run up the driveway to get the mail. Ran like a champ (compared to how it has been running), with a slight miss at lower rpm's. I stopped at the mailbox and it acted like it was going to cut off. When I got back in and put it in reverse it did the same thing. I pulled it into drive and hit the gas - got a spark knock and the MIL started flashing. When I got back to the shop I pulled the codes - P0300, 301, 303, 304, 306! I sat there idling for a few minutes and picked up P0174 and 175. The injector codes didn't come back. It runs smooth above 1200rpm, idles at around 650 according to the scanner. The rpm's fluctuate a little at idle and at 1200 or so.

What the hell?!

 

That sounds like a nightmare. I would probably just start throwing money at it. New injectors, plugs, and coils. Lol. Beat of luck. Hope someone can give you insight. Just bought a 2v 5.4 a week ago. My first ford.

 

maybe a problem with the wiring/connectors to the injectors?