Is it time for a gearbox??
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,372
Likes: 108
From: Northern Indiana
Is it time for a gearbox??
I just redid the front end on my truck today. New ball joints, wheel bearings and seals. Had to loosed the tie rods when I did everything. So I will be honest with the ball joints and tie rods I tighten them down tight, no torque spec used here. Never really had an issue. However, my truck after assembly and a test drive seems to be sticky steering now. After a corner it doesn't self center the wheel like normal. It does a little but not as well as it used to. Higher speeds it seems to be worse. So could over tightening the ball joints or tie rods attribute to the steering issues described?
Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 13
How did you install the ball joints? In nearly every case of steering not returning to center, the problem was the installation of the ball joints causing binding. Also, even if they were pressed in properly, if you torqued the top joint before the lower one, it will cause binding.
Here's what to do.
1. Take both front tires off.
2. Disconnect both tie rod ends.
3. Using your hand on the spindle, see if you can move the knuckle from lock to lock. It should not require much pressure at all to turn it. If you cannot turn it, or it takes more than about 2 fingers to move the knuckle, get ready to pull out the ball joints you just installed, as you've likely damaged them during installation.
Here's what to do.
1. Take both front tires off.
2. Disconnect both tie rod ends.
3. Using your hand on the spindle, see if you can move the knuckle from lock to lock. It should not require much pressure at all to turn it. If you cannot turn it, or it takes more than about 2 fingers to move the knuckle, get ready to pull out the ball joints you just installed, as you've likely damaged them during installation.
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
From: MN
like thor'shammer said, most likely you over tightened the ball joints.Some things you can get away without a torque wrench. Ball joints are not one of those things. I don't know the spec off hand but there is a special sequence to torque them so they don't bind. hopefully you can take them off and retorque without needing new parts.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,795
Likes: 47
I had that hsppen a few years back when just the tie rods were replaced on my 2006 F350. I actually took it back to the mechanic to make sure nothing was wrong with the steering. Just learned to live with it.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,372
Likes: 108
From: Northern Indiana
How did you install the ball joints? In nearly every case of steering not returning to center, the problem was the installation of the ball joints causing binding. Also, even if they were pressed in properly, if you torqued the top joint before the lower one, it will cause binding.
Here's what to do.
1. Take both front tires off.
2. Disconnect both tie rod ends.
3. Using your hand on the spindle, see if you can move the knuckle from lock to lock. It should not require much pressure at all to turn it. If you cannot turn it, or it takes more than about 2 fingers to move the knuckle, get ready to pull out the ball joints you just installed, as you've likely damaged them during installation.
Here's what to do.
1. Take both front tires off.
2. Disconnect both tie rod ends.
3. Using your hand on the spindle, see if you can move the knuckle from lock to lock. It should not require much pressure at all to turn it. If you cannot turn it, or it takes more than about 2 fingers to move the knuckle, get ready to pull out the ball joints you just installed, as you've likely damaged them during installation.
Nothing like telling me how dumb I am. Hey truth is truth right. I guess all the times I got lucky without using a torque wrench caught up with me. I used a ball joint press to replace the joints, so I think that went well. I replaced with MOOG ball joints. I didn't torque the passenger side but then got to thinking about it and looked up online the spec. I read MOOG says 150 ft/lbs. so I torqued the driver side to 150. I sure do hope I didn't damage the brand new ball joints. Does anybody know if the 150 is correct? And also anybody know the torque specs on the tie rods? Do you think it's possible to loosen that passenger side and retorque? I can take off the tie rods and move the knuckle and see what we have there.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,372
Likes: 108
From: Northern Indiana
Going to pick up the truck in the am after my shift is over. Gonna take it home and see what I can do. I wish you didn't have to take EVERYTHING apart to get to the ball joints. I might retorque the ball joints and just tear apart the passenger side real quick and torque everything properly. Hope that helps.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Feb 2011
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From: Forest lake minnesota
Going to pick up the truck in the am after my shift is over. Gonna take it home and see what I can do. I wish you didn't have to take EVERYTHING apart to get to the ball joints. I might retorque the ball joints and just tear apart the passenger side real quick and torque everything properly. Hope that helps.
Do what Thor said first with removing each tie rod and see if the knuckle turns back and forth freely. They should almost flop back and forth on there own....
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Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,372
Likes: 108
From: Northern Indiana
Will do. Is this with the brake rotor and everything on still?
New User
Joined: Nov 2015
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Just going by memory here, and that ain't what it used to be. I think the lower ball joint starts at 35 lbs. Then upper at 69 lbs. Then back to lower at 150 lbs. All tie rod nuts are 69 lbs. I believe. Tie rod adjuster clamp bolts are 40 lbs. I think. LOL If you used Moog ball joints, there should be a torque chart and sequence in the box with them.
Gregg,
Gregg,
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,372
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From: Northern Indiana
Just going by memory here, and that ain't what it used to be. I think the lower ball joint starts at 35 lbs. Then upper at 69 lbs. Then back to lower at 150 lbs. All tie rod nuts are 69 lbs. I believe. Tie rod adjuster clamp bolts are 40 lbs. I think. LOL If you used Moog ball joints, there should be a torque chart and sequence in the box with them.
Gregg,
Gregg,
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,372
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From: Northern Indiana
Well for those following I just ran across this. I guess I will be taking both sides apart again. This reaffirms I am a dummy. I hope I can just take apart and re torque and be okay. And that the top and bottom torque valves are different.
http://www.moogproblemsolver.com/_pd...K12_101_En.pdf
http://www.moogproblemsolver.com/_pd...K12_101_En.pdf
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Northern Indiana
Well I pulled my inner pit crew out and went home this morning after shift and tore both sides down and retorque D everything properly. Took me 1hr and 42mins for both sides. Still took a little more then two fingers to move it but I figured the joints are new and tight probably. Took it for a drive and seems to be a lot better. Steering still felt loose. So I have an appointment tomorrow morning for a alignment because I am sure that's all whacked out from two times to disassembly. I am hopeing that fixes the rest of the play and we will be back to normal. If not I am lost as to what happened.