Well I try to dump the return line from the pump as Joshua sugests. One thing that is strange no matter the timing is set, it starts fine. Is the pump movement such a fine adjustment? On every diesel I have worked 2 mm is just a lot and changes drastically, here is the picture.

There is evidence someone removed the IP Gear cover, might be a tooth off. The other thing that confuses me, the advance is intermitent, and seems to slowly disapear after the pump movement. First it drives great, then the other day it is not that great. I suspect the pump, tried the atf trick, improved. It just seems the advance mechanism is not working correct in the pump.

Actually now the cold start rattle is ok I guess, but it does not disappear when hot, it is still present. But still slowly rewing it up, the clatter is present, light load advance moves in, the pin is engaging, everythink fine but at one spot of the throttle travel the clatter disapears 1100rpm and then it goes back around 1200 rpm and is present all the way up. It seems like there is a deaf spot. I can not advance it more, would have to take the gear cover off and skip a tooth. And I read it is quite hard to set it as there is no space to see inside.

 

You can mess with it more -- Use my trick of adjusting the screw on the side of the light-load advance lever. This basically changes the entire curve more retarded or advanced(screw in is more retarded, out is more advanced):

At this point, I don't think you have a lot to lose.
You can also do what I did and measure how far that screw is out right now, and write it down, so if you ever want to go back to 'stock', you can.


Heck, if you can't afford a good R&D pump for a while, you can think about a JY used pump(have a friend here in the states grab you one and ship it?). Should be in the $100 range, and while it might have issues of it's own, your pump sounds pretty worn. You can literally take /any/ 6.9 or 7.3 DB2 pump and have it work just fine - the only real difference is in the fueling screw adjustment.

 

I think I will play with the return line first. I do not think actually the pump is screwed, I lean more and more towards the gears are not lined and it is skipped a tooth.

Today I fliped to the rear tank and within 15 miles it refiled my front tank, at least the front read full now and I was down to empty. So I went to gas station and yes, the front one took only two gallons and was full, rear one is empty, there was over 10 gallons in that tank. If this is true, the pump is bypassing hell of the fuel and a good point is the standard 6.9 return is to the pasenger side returns from the injectors, so yes there would build up back presure. I know the lines are free flowing, the FSS is stuck probably, need to take it apart and repair.

I can not advance it more, so I will try the return and then I will inspect the gears. The mystery part is it was running ok in the states, actually it was a litle retarded from the center mark, now I have it fully advanced. The pump does not go bad by sitting. Starts fine, starts hot extremely fine on couple rews. I have watched all IDI videos on the utube to compare the clatter, still hot it runs again smooth. Seems the timing varies, which leads me to the return line again, as that would cause it.

And I tried everything on the front tank, not touching the FSS for 3 weeks and I know it was not blocked then and returned to the correct tank, so FSS is out of play.

And last I can play with the retarding cam but this truck is a keeper forever and I want to have everything 110 percent, I just hate experimenting without knowing how much do I affect things on car that has to last my whole life. I have done it to junk cars many times but this one is my diamond. And I have a spare IP, I can try that as well. Need to get the probe to actually know the advance but I am bone broke now.

 

Why are you concerned about the FSS?
The FSS(Fuel Shutoff Solenoid) stops the engine. If it's stuck the engine either won't stop or won't run.
I suspect you meant Cold Idle Advance Solenoid, the one which lowers housing pressure.
Thing is, if that is stuck closed, you would be more retarded when the engine is cold, but it wouldn't affect things when hot.
If it's stuck open, you would be running more advanced than normal when the engine is hot.
You have the opposite problem.
The great thing about these IDIs is they are extremely well built. Running the engine a bit too advanced or retarded won't /hurt/ it. It will hurt your fuel economy and power(both ways), but won't damage anything.

If you want things 110%, well, you'd better get an R&D pump on there. Until that time, well, it's "patch things as best you can with what you have", if you expect it to run until you get the money for that pump.

As far as the timing probe goes, I disagree with the status quo of "you need a probe to time things correctly".
I bought a luminosity probe and timing light, and all I've ended up using them for is referencing how much I adjusted things. I realized that I can feel things better than tuning to a number will give, and my last dyno run confirmed that I think.
And, really... for me, drivability and responsiveness is more important than overall horsepower, so if I end up slightly off the 'optimum' values but have a better-feeling truck, so be it.

Oh, that reminds me:
Cetane numbers. Cetane numbers tell you how fast the fuel burns. If you have lower cetane fuel where you are than you had in the states, you would end up retarded because the fuel is simply burning slower. You then would need to advance the timing to compensate.

Speaking of being one-tooth-off... Back before I got a decent pump, I recall building my engine, putting it dot-to-dot, and finding the engine barely ran with tons of white smoke. Pulled the gear up just enough to move it a tooth forward, and it ran much better after that.

 

I think you mean FSV not FSS. And yes, if it is drawing from one tank and returning it to another you have a real problem. You might want to temporarily bypass it and plumb it directly to one tank or the other just to take one variable out of the equation. Restriction can be a sneaky thing. On mine I could blow air by mouth through the return line into the tank yet the flow was restricted enough that the truck would not run more than about 30 seconds.

Another thing that alarms me is the rate of fuel transfer. 10 gallons changed tanks within 15 miles??? Holy crap. When mine had return line problems I was able to get it home by running the return line into a soda bottle wedged into the inner fender by the fire wall. I would stop and dump it on the ground every 2-3 miles and I had perhaps 1/4 to 1/2 liter in the catch. I wonder why yours is returning so much and if you have enough inlet pressure. Inlet pressure will really jack your timing as well. Sure, it is possible you are off a tooth, but to me it seems obvious that you have something very strange going on with your supply and return plumbing. Fix that first before trying to compensate with pump adjustments. I can also mail you the FSV out of my truck when I get the chance... I will be running the single Bronco tank and I won't need it.

 

Yes I ment FSV. I know it is strange, maybe I am wrong, but for sure the last refil I put over 10 gallons in each tank and was using the front tank. Yesterday it read almost 0 so I fliped to the rear tank which showed 3/4 full. Well after 5 miles it read only 1/2 then I did not look at it. Came home, parked the truck. Drove it in the evening, started it and rear tank read 0, so I was just ok, sender not showing, took off and within 2 miles I ran out of fuel, flipped to the front and it read full. Pulled to the gas station to refill the front tank and after 2 gallons it was full. I never have enough money to full the both tanks, which is 200 dollars here. Or the cables are switched and actually when flipped to the front tank it draws from the rear tank which would explain it without mystery of transfering the fuel within 15 miles.
I fear of running out of fuel so I never let it down to 0, at which point there are 4 gallons in the tank, but as it does not have any dividers in the tank, the fuel swings back and forth and can suck air in turns. Yes I know there are 4 gallons as I set the gauges to show 0 at 4 gallons, or basicaly it was the way the floats were set.

If it did transfer the fuel, the lift pump is really cpable and good. Is there a valve on the outlet to presurize the IP pump or how does the pump maintain the inlet pressure? Usualy there is a valve on the outlet of the return on pumps here, or it is just the size of the outlet pipe and inlet pipe? Or is it internal?

The sensor for high idle and cold advance is broke, and I know why as u tighten the nut on the IP on that side, u most likely hit it with the wrench.

Anyway now it drives way better, it is throtle responsive, and actually the cold start clatter is not that bad, well EU diesels would spit a rod but compared to the utube videos I am fine

 

The truck sat for 3 days and yesterday when I had to drive it it was horribly advanced, black smoke, rattle. The timing changes randomly, I will try the return line but I lean towards the IP being bad.

 

No they don't. I've had many a Bosch that lost some timing advance as it got high miles on it. Bosch pumps (the rotary ones) were made under license from Stanadyne. Different yes - but share enough basic principals that a license was needed. Once upon a time - many types of US equipment got Stanadyne if sole in the US and Bosch if sold in Europe. It was part of the original agreement that is likely long expired. Note I'm talking about German Bosch - not to be confused with the part of Bosch that the US seized after WWII and make it "American Bosch."

The advance on the DB pumps is very reliable and also adjustable on a running engine. Also easily checked with a $5 timing window. Not quite so with the "improved" DB2. They both use fuel pressure to advance and generally speaking, the more RPMs, the more advance up to around 12-14 degrees (at the flywheel) or 6-7 degrees at the pump.

 

Dude do not want to be offensive but the design is piece of crap, the pre metered design is just awful, if we would have Bosch or Lucas pumps u would have not heard about them so often. The BD design is bad, basicaly the first turn of the pump and it gets worse with every next turn. Nothing to compensate for wear. The pump is the weakest spot on our engines. Howg.

 

I'm not sure what aspect of the pump you are calling "pre-metered" and what makes the pump then a "piece of crap." I've seen many work fine to well over 150K miles. I'm talking about pumps made 1985 and newer. The early pre-85 pumps had a plastic (pellathane) weight retainer that was prone to failure. Also some umbrella-shaft seal issues. But yes - we had a lot of farm, industrial, and logging equipment with Lucas/CAV and Bosch rotary-distributor pumps and by far - we did the most repairs on the Stanadyne-Roosamaster CDC, CBC, and DBG pumps. But - they were used the most. With equipment made early 80s and back - just about all the diesels we worked on had Stanadyne or AMBAC rotarys (AMBAC is American Bosch). We had to do repairs on both. When CAV rotaries became more common in US equipment - very few repairs other then the to the transfer-pumps in the back.

The timing advance got weak on my 1992 Dodge Cummins with the Bosch VE pump when it had 140K miles on it. Not much different then what I'd expect with a Stanadyne DB2 on a GM 6.2/6.5 or Ford/IH 6.9-7.3. One thing that got less rugged between the Stanadyne DB and DB2 is the DB had steel sealing parts for the timing-advance piston. DB2 uses an aluminum bore that is more prone to wear. But for a pump that can often go 150K miles with no problems - I don't call it "crap." If I had my choice, I'd rather have an in-line pump that uses a separate injector pump for each engine cylinder, instead of two little plungers for all of them. Also an in-line lacks the sensitive "head and rotor" distributor section that rotaries have to use.

By the way - Stanadyne makes a HD kit to make the advance a little more rugged in the DB2 pump. The US military uses the kits since they had so many wear problems with low-lube fuel.

 

I am talking about the part the Stanadyne pump first meters the volume and then presses, the Bosch first presses and then the amount is metered. But I am not any expert on pumps, just had couple bmw 2,5 TDS way over 600 000km and still original pumps, yes Bosch pumps, Ford Mondeo 1,8 TD 380000km, Chrysler Grand Voyager 2,5 TD 500 000km, and the highest was Mercedes 300TD 1.2 milion km, still original pump. My uncle bought it new so I had a perfect record what went wrong through 30 years, couple brake pads, 2 water pumps, 2x starter, 3 times alternator, 3 times clutch, that was pretty much it. I do not want to argue, just to my belief the design of the Stanadyne is poor, thats all. I wish Bosch had 8 cylinder rotary pump, I would swap it in a hearth beat.

 

General figures go like this:

1 degree advance @ 300-500 pump RPM (that equals 600-1000 engine RPM)

5 degrees advance @ 750-850 pump RPM

6 degrees advance @ 950-1000 pump RPM (12 degrees engine advance)

Varies a little from different # pumps

 

Well then the 8 degrees by 2000rpm means 4 degrees at the pump which seems to me is not correct as it would be only 2 degrees at idle on the pump, 4 degrees on the engine, it seems too low.

 

Are you saying you've got 8 degree total engine advance @ 2000 RPM?

I'm not sure what you are referring too. All the DB2 pumps used on GM 6.2s and 6.5s as well as on Ford-IH 6.9s and 7.3s have a total advance movement of 5.5 to 7 pump degrees (varies by pump spec #) and that's at 2000 engine RPM and a transferpump fuel pressure of 60-62 PSI.

 

Thats what I was told to set the timing 8 degrees at 2000rpm, or did I misunderstood? But this is interesting. I have no idea where my timing is, as it is changing by the mood of the pump. Now I have it the most advanced and it was good for 3 days, great performance, no smoke. After three days it is too advanced, smokes bad low rpm, clatters A LOT. I think the pump is not good, as I checked everything and can not find anything else what would cause it. The last thing I can try is to run the fuel from a clean can inside the cab, and return line to the same can. But I doubt it would make any difference.