I think you're setting up these arbitrary sets of conditions that don't make any sense, and then declaring your ideas the best.

You argument seems to be, that buying an "as-is" 25 year old car, say, for use as a daily driver is asking for trouble. And you're right, of course. Nobody is arguing that is a good idea. Some people can't afford a new car. Yeah, so then... what? You don't have an argument, just some kind of bitchfest.

"Which one would you choose, this worn out POS in the junkyard, or this shiny brand new 2016?"

Maintenance is maintenance, machinery needs attention, adjustment, lubrication, repair etc. It doesn't matter what it is, nor how new it is. Preventive maintenance is simply good sense and maximizes the service life of the vehicle and keeps downtime and expenses to a minimum.

 

Again you are taking my point to extremes. Way beyond the intent.

And take it easy on the language Tedster.

 

You may have your opinion but that does not mean it is the only one or the correct one for everybody. Just like my opinion isn't the right/correct one for everybody. But we are both entitled to have our opinions. But that doesn't mean we have to try and force our opinions onto everyone else. I like older vehicles, but you don't see me bashing everyone that post about newer vehicles.

A vehicle is a vehicle, it's not a count down clock with an expiration date/end time.

There is nothing on an older vehicle that can't be fixed or rebuilt. And it's usually quite a bit cheaper then doing the same type of repair on a newer vehicle. And just because someone wants to own one or fix one doesn't make them wrong.

I've got a 89 E350 that I'm completely rebuilding bumper to bumper. By the time it's finished I should have right around $6,000.00 invested in it. For that money I'm going to have a completely rebuilt vehicle that is built exactly the way I want it. When I put it back on the road it will be dead reliable. You can't guarantee the same thing about buying a used $5,000-$6,000 10-15 year old vehicle.

I have no issues at all daily driving a carbed vehicle. That's what I'm building my 54 F100 for. A year round daily driver.

The simpler the vehicle the easier it is to repair if and when there is a problem. And that's something an older vehicle will always have an advantage over a newer one.

You like newer vehicles, that's fine. But that doesn't make me wrong for liking old vehicles or anyone else that does either. For me I'd take a 75-91 Econoline over any other generation van.

 

I didn't force anyone anything.
I didn't bash anyone.
I didn't say anyone is wrong.


I shared my opinions/observations, and everyone else did those things to ME!

 

Aw, c'mon be a man. These are your ideas, stripped of their jargon.

 

It would be more manly for people to not add their imagination into my statements.

Y'all need to reread my words.

 

Yes. Especially if it has some issues driving the price to mid to low 3 digits.

Both my kids' first cars were 96 Panthers (one CV, one LTC). I encased my daughter in 5000lbs of American steel, with fresh brakes, tires, suspension, working AC and airbags for well under $2K including the $600 purchase price and $100 tow home. The CV my son drove was under $1k all in.

I'd buy another E-van from that era without a second thought for the right price.

Buying new or newish just means I eat the depreciation.

However, my wife gets newish stuff even if we keep it for 10 years or so. Happy wife, happy life.

 

I don't even know what a Panther is... Lol

 

Get used to it. That's how you learn to defend your ideas.

 

I'm not refering to just your post in this thread.

And I do consider it bashing when you call someone's vehicle names because it's older then you like. Like you did in the second line of your first post in this thread. And quoting yourself doesn't mean you didn't say it.





Panther is the 1979+ Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis/Lincoln Town Car platform.

 

Don't cross the streams!

 

Sorry - Panthers = Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car.

 

Hmmm. I had a summer job in the late 90's that involved driving a fuel injected early 90's chevy 1/2 ton 2 wheel drive truck and I was floored by the fuel economy that was 22mpg. I think it was the 305 engine. I currently own an 8.1 liter 4x4 2500 quad cab long bed that gets 13mpg.

Properly designed electronic fuel injection is capable of injecting fuel at the perfect stoichometric mixture to each cylinder for every temperature, pressure, throttle postion, and RPM encountered throughout an engine's operation. A carburetor can never do this and can never hit the fuel economy or power of electronic fuel injection. I live near the arctic circle (ok just Minnesota) but starting problems in cold weather stopped a few years after the introduction of fuel injection and everyone here knows that. We don't need to plug in our cars anymore to get them to start in cold weather. My fleet starts at -25F. That would never happen with a carb.

Regarding maintaining the old stuff, yes you can do that and have a relatively reliable vehicle but they are NOT as reliable as newer vehicles. I operate vans with more miles on them than ever imagined in the 1970s, 80s and even 90s. I've posted in another thread about how I change plugs every 300,000 or 400,000 miles. One serpentine belt with 500,000 miles on it and it never failed, never even squealed. I have three vans with more than one million miles on them and I've never touched the fuel injection system on ANY of them. I've changed some COPS, but the injectors seem to never fail. The COPS that fail have hundreds of thousands of miles on them.

Outside of those engine related things, older vehicles just end up with a million little things going wrong all over the place. You can maintain up the wazoo and you'll still miss something. You'll have a driver get in one of your older vans and get out to some remote destination and then the door handle breaks. If it's the rear cargo door where your passenger's luggage is, you've got an issue. Luggage is locked in and they've got a flight leaving in an hour. Or you have a coolant hose blow that was either rubbing against something or is just old (5 years) and your driver is on the side of the road. Maybe your windshield wiper 4 bar mechanism wore out the bushings and now it gets hung up every time you try to start it. There's freezing rain. Your driver cannot continue. Blower motor out in the winter? Done. Maybe the switch to the motor is shot. Done. Out of service. Or your driver rolled down the window for some reason and it won't roll up now because the harness got worn in a spot and it's -15 degrees out. Done, out of service.

Hence my statement, Eff that trash.

 

This example he wrote is exactly illustrating my point. Door handles, wiper bushings, oddball wiring problems, etc. weird things that can't be "preventive maintenanced"

I had intended to 'not reply, and just watch the conversations on this thread', but wow! Delgriffith sank the nail in one strike.

I'm still very interested in seeing more opinions. But I had to chime in here to agree.

DelGriffith, please tell me (us) what model years you have in service, and what approximate age you start seeing gremlins.

 

As always DelGriffith your points are well taken and for the most part spot on, especially the bits about computer control of engine operations. Times are different today where fuel economy and emissions are of much bigger concerns than when carburetors et al were state of the art automotive systems.

Operating and overseeing a fleet of people moving vehicles where reliability is paramount "newer" makes huge economic sense. Most of us here aren't in the same situation so many of the issues mentioned never show up at all or well into a van's life past 15 years old.

Sadly this "conversation" was begun because bashing "older" vans seems to be a sport of sorts, owners thereof taking offense to their vehicles repeatedly being called rolling scrap metal, not worth time and effort to keep running.

Assuming budgets are no concern by all means "newer" is "better". However the average working guy/gal might believe the infrequent or occasional small repair issue is a small cost of ownership, much better dealt with than making a relatively large monthly payment for "newer". This very forum is centered on helping keep "older" vehicles serviceable---there's little to discuss about new vehicles other than how much we like or dislike them

For-hire fleet operations operate under vastly different situations than the average drivers/owners found here on FTE----mostly less use of things like door handles/latches, wiper arm assemblies etc etc etc which tend to be highly reliable in that average use. Those of us capable of DIY repairs don't mind the trade off of small chores versus monthly payments for the same thing "new" vehicles offer--daily transportation.

Thanks again Del----you're a valued contributor here!