351m to 400 conversion help
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 236
Likes: 2
From: Harpers ferry, WV
My 400 in my 1977 truck was rebuilt with stock internals and stock replacement pistons with open chamber stock 2V heads, I live at 5500-6000 ft and I HAVE to use 91 during the hot summer and 89 during winter to avoid pinging, I can barely get away with 87 octane fuel if its freezing and I retard my timing AND avoid every hill in the Sierra Nevada Mountain range (which is effing impossible).... Yes, the open chamber heads suck and obviously ping like a ****, or maybe it's just I got the one engine that is unhappy lol Doubt it though... I hate hearing those little gremlins hammering inside my engine so I usually stick to 91 and call it good.
Now I am building a new 400 with closed chamber heads and a 13cc dished piston sitting .005' above deck, I should'nt have anymore ping, for good quench we have to keep quench right around .040" for best results I have been told.
Now I am building a new 400 with closed chamber heads and a 13cc dished piston sitting .005' above deck, I should'nt have anymore ping, for good quench we have to keep quench right around .040" for best results I have been told.
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Ask Tim if 9.5 is a problem with stock heads. Rusty is running stock heads and rebuilder pistons, although I don't know what the CR is. It has an RV cam and pulls quite well for a 351M. Initial timing is at 12 BTDC and I have lots of vacuum advance dialed in. It never pings or runs-on with 87 octane regardless of how hot it gets down here at 700' above sea level.
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Go read the threads I gave you the links to. In there you'll find a link to a Crankshaft Coalition explanation of quench/squish. Also, you MUST have closed-chambered heads or there is no squish. And, I put a discussion of heads in one of those links as well. Lots of reading.
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 236
Likes: 2
From: Harpers ferry, WV
Quench, or squish as it is more accurately called, is easily determined. It is the thickness of the head gasket, which is usually .039", minus the distance your piston is below/above the deck. Most stock blocks, cranks, and rods will put the top of the piston down in the hole about .020", but that varies a lot. And anything greater than about .040" of squish doesn't work. So, the piston has to be at the top of the block or above to get effective squish.
Go read the threads I gave you the links to. In there you'll find a link to a Crankshaft Coalition explanation of quench/squish. Also, you MUST have closed-chambered heads or there is no squish. And, I put a discussion of heads in one of those links as well. Lots of reading.
Go read the threads I gave you the links to. In there you'll find a link to a Crankshaft Coalition explanation of quench/squish. Also, you MUST have closed-chambered heads or there is no squish. And, I put a discussion of heads in one of those links as well. Lots of reading.
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Good plan. Tim can tell you how much CR you can get by with when coupled with a specific cam. And, he has his own profiles that Comp will grind for basically the same price as an off-the-shelf cam.
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 236
Likes: 2
From: Harpers ferry, WV
Tim called me!!! got a direction to go, gonna use his complete kit!! all I need to do is find a 400 crank!!!
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Good! But, last I knew he sold 400 cranks as well.
And, I was going to comment that he's a really busy guy of late. He bought the rights to the Track Boss intake manifold and has recently purchased the rights to the Todd Buttermore 351C block. So he is in the process of setting up the casting for both items and he will then do the machining in his shop - which he is also dramatically expanding. So, not only will he be the only place to get pistons for a strong 400, he will also be making the intakes for all Clevelands as well as the blocks for 351C's. Bottom Line: Tim is the guru and go-to guy for all things to do with the 335 series of engines.
And, I was going to comment that he's a really busy guy of late. He bought the rights to the Track Boss intake manifold and has recently purchased the rights to the Todd Buttermore 351C block. So he is in the process of setting up the casting for both items and he will then do the machining in his shop - which he is also dramatically expanding. So, not only will he be the only place to get pistons for a strong 400, he will also be making the intakes for all Clevelands as well as the blocks for 351C's. Bottom Line: Tim is the guru and go-to guy for all things to do with the 335 series of engines.
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 236
Likes: 2
From: Harpers ferry, WV
Good! But, last I knew he sold 400 cranks as well.
And, I was going to comment that he's a really busy guy of late. He bought the rights to the Track Boss intake manifold and has recently purchased the rights to the Todd Buttermore 351C block. So he is in the process of setting up the casting for both items and he will then do the machining in his shop - which he is also dramatically expanding. So, not only will he be the only place to get pistons for a strong 400, he will also be making the intakes for all Clevelands as well as the blocks for 351C's. Bottom Line: Tim is the guru and go-to guy for all things to do with the 335 series of engines.
And, I was going to comment that he's a really busy guy of late. He bought the rights to the Track Boss intake manifold and has recently purchased the rights to the Todd Buttermore 351C block. So he is in the process of setting up the casting for both items and he will then do the machining in his shop - which he is also dramatically expanding. So, not only will he be the only place to get pistons for a strong 400, he will also be making the intakes for all Clevelands as well as the blocks for 351C's. Bottom Line: Tim is the guru and go-to guy for all things to do with the 335 series of engines.
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Junior User
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: Silver State
yeah he knows his stuff by just talking to him on this motor.........he said the 400 cranks are getting hard to come by and he doesn't have any in reserve to sell right now so, gotta come up with one on my own........few places online I found but 300-400 is outrageous IN MY OPINION for just the crank kit.........150-180 is more doable.
400 in general are hard to find. I spent 9 months searching for one. Finally found one on Craigslist in mid December of 2013 in Quincy California had to travel 4 hours in a blizzard to get the complete engine, mine was FULL, I mean FUULLL of ice and water from being left out in the weather through winter. What amazed me was that it passed a magnetic die inspection and there was only one crack in the driver side cylinder head. Everything else, besides all the piston rings being seized (used marvel oil to free them up) was prestine because of the amount of sludgey nasty oil left in it. Got mine for $50. Good luck man!
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 236
Likes: 2
From: Harpers ferry, WV
400 in general are hard to find. I spent 9 months searching for one. Finally found one on Craigslist in mid December of 2013 in Quincy California had to travel 4 hours in a blizzard to get the complete engine, mine was FULL, I mean FUULLL of ice and water from being left out in the weather through winter. What amazed me was that it passed a magnetic die inspection and there was only one crack in the driver side cylinder head. Everything else, besides all the piston rings being seized (used marvel oil to free them up) was prestine because of the amount of sludgey nasty oil left in it. Got mine for $50. Good luck man!
Junior User
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: Silver State
OOOHHHH!! You lucky dog! haha
And here I am thanking I got the best deal ever $50 for a complete long block, including intake and valve covers haha
Good find man!
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 236
Likes: 2
From: Harpers ferry, WV
Junior User
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: Silver State
OUCH... Check around the scrap yards man you may get lucky... Or you may strike out, won't know til you try.
Look everywhere on the internet too man, one is bound to show up, you may have to pay some shipping fees but, I had the luxury of time on my side and I was able to wait for one to pop up that w semi close to me.