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Old Sep 19, 2015 | 12:21 AM
  #16  
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The_Josh_Bear
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Starting Problem

Get either a diesel-rated squeeze bulb or a diesel rated check-valve and plumb it in right before the fuel filter, and boom all your air problems from the entire return system will be gone.
As tecgod said, air can get in places that fuel can't get out, so the leaks must be fixed, but aren't necessarily where the air is getting in. A leaking fuel injector line will not cause a hard start condition that is affected whatsoever by the accelerator pedal.
Like Macrobb said, one thing at a time. Hit the olives, add the check valve(or squeeze bulb), and get the injector lines not leaking while in there.
THEN worry about e-pumps and whatnot.

I also agree that jamming the skinny pedal has nothing to do with air intrusion. I've heard that it helps purge air from the IP when it sucks a gulp of air but I can't confirm that.

I do KNOW that the check-valve works great. The Facet works great. I've had both. But the check valve is cheap and easy.

My IP has hot-start issues at times and the facet pump really didn't do much for it. Maybe if I let it run a minute before starting but I don't do that. (Cause then it would fill the IP with cooler fuel)

OH...If its still under warranty get another pump. Or better yet a refund and buy a pump from a real rebuilder...

Edit: what's your idle speed? Maybe its extra-low and combined with hot fuel the idle circuit(for lack of a better term) isn't getting enough juice to start? Just a thought.
 
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Old Sep 19, 2015 | 12:33 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by The_Josh_Bear
Get either a diesel-rated squeeze bulb or a diesel rated check-valve and plumb it in right before the fuel filter, and boom all your air problems from the entire return system will be gone.
As tecgod said, air can get in places that fuel can't get out, so the leaks must be fixed, but aren't necessarily where the air is getting in. A leaking fuel injector line will not cause a hard start condition that is affected whatsoever by the accelerator pedal.
Like Macrobb said, one thing at a time. Hit the olives, add the check valve(or squeeze bulb), and get the injector lines not leaking while in there.
THEN worry about e-pumps and whatnot.

I also agree that jamming the skinny pedal has nothing to do with air intrusion. I've heard that it helps purge air from the IP when it sucks a gulp of air but I can't confirm that.

I do KNOW that the check-valve works great. The Facet works great. I've had both. But the check valve is cheap and easy.

My IP has hot-start issues at times and the facet pump really didn't do much for it. Maybe if I let it run a minute before starting but I don't do that. (Cause then it would fill the IP with cooler fuel)

OH...If its still under warranty get another pump. Or better yet a refund and buy a pump from a real rebuilder...

Edit: what's your idle speed? Maybe its extra-low and combined with hot fuel the idle circuit(for lack of a better term) isn't getting enough juice to start? Just a thought.
Could you clarify on what a squeeze bulb and a check valve is and where I could get one? My idle is about 650-700ish while in drive with the ac off. I want to get rid of this "air intrusion" first before I rule out the pump and have to take it off for the 4th time in 8 months and get my refund. If I end up getting a refund I will buy one from R&D. Thanks
 
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Old Sep 19, 2015 | 12:53 AM
  #18  
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Starting Problem

A check-valve is a one-way valve. That way fuel can go into the filter, but not back out the same way once the engine is off.

I should have said Primer Bulb, it's those lemon-sized ballons in the middle of a fuel line like on the kicker motor for a boat. It's just a way to manually prime the system. You squeeze it and fuel flows one-way. It has two check valves inside it, and is handy for filter changes.

Edit: link!
A random primer bulb
 
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Old Sep 19, 2015 | 12:59 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by The_Josh_Bear
A check-valve is a one-way valve. That way fuel can go into the filter, but not back out the same way once the engine is off.

I should have said Primer Bulb, it's those lemon-sized ballons in the middle of a fuel line like on the kicker motor for a boat. It's just a way to manually prime the system. You squeeze it and fuel flows one-way. It has two check valves inside it, and is handy for filter changes.

Edit: link!
A random primer bulb
I found a part number for the check valve and how to diagnose one I will check mine tomorrow
 
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Old Sep 19, 2015 | 08:49 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by The_Josh_Bear
A check-valve is a one-way valve. That way fuel can go into the filter, but not back out the same way once the engine is off.

I should have said Primer Bulb, it's those lemon-sized ballons in the middle of a fuel line like on the kicker motor for a boat. It's just a way to manually prime the system. You squeeze it and fuel flows one-way. It has two check valves inside it, and is handy for filter changes.

Edit: link!
A random primer bulb
So I pulled the check valve from the filter housing and I could see right through it. This means it's bad right?
 
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Old Sep 20, 2015 | 12:05 AM
  #21  
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Big-time. And furthermore a better place to install a new one is before the filter, that stock location doesn't really get the job done in the first place.
Ford later recalled that part and they deleted it altogether, plugging that port.
Better would be to leave it and add that other check valve, so that air getting into the filter has somewhere to go besides the IP.
 
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Old Sep 20, 2015 | 12:23 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by The_Josh_Bear
Big-time. And furthermore a better place to install a new one is before the filter, that stock location doesn't really get the job done in the first place.
Ford later recalled that part and they deleted it altogether, plugging that port.
Better would be to leave it and add that other check valve, so that air getting into the filter has somewhere to go besides the IP.
Where would be the ideal location of the check valve? And plug it off? Also what kind of check valve? If I put an e pump would that work as a check valve in a way?

Sorry lots of questions
 
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Old Sep 20, 2015 | 11:50 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by jmuenchow
UPDATE: I have disconnected the FSS while the engine was warm and clicks.

Josh
Hearing the fuel shut-off-solenoid "click" does not mean it's working. The fuel is turned "off' and "on" by spring pressure. All that solenoid does is - when energized - is get out of the way of a spring so the fuel metering valve can rotate to open position . So, it can make a nice "click" and the fuel may still NOT be "on." Linkage and/or metering valve can be hanging up. Since it seems to work for you when you push on the accelerator pedal - sounds like you are somehow freeing up some sticking linkage. Just a guess. What you are calling "heat soaking" is , I assume, when the distributor section of the pump assembly is so worn it loses the fuel charges at engine cranking speed when hot. Common issue in all distributor-type pumps. Symptoms of that is an engine that starts fine cold, runs fine hot or cold, but will not restart hot until it cools down a bit. Starter motor cannot make that pump turn fast enough to overcome the internal leakage in the distributor "head & rotor." An air leak is not going to get better when you push on the pedal. Air leaks are common when the check-valve at the injection pump outlet leaks, as well as many other causes. If you install an electric pump - and the leak is before the mechanical fuel pump - the leak will show up fast. If the leak is in the return lines and/or the check valve - it will not show up by installing an electric pump.
 
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Old Sep 20, 2015 | 02:06 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by jdemaris
Hearing the fuel shut-off-solenoid "click" does not mean it's working. The fuel is turned "off' and "on" by spring pressure. All that solenoid does is - when energized - is get out of the way of a spring so the fuel metering valve can rotate to open position . So, it can make a nice "click" and the fuel may still NOT be "on." Linkage and/or metering valve can be hanging up. Since it seems to work for you when you push on the accelerator pedal - sounds like you are somehow freeing up some sticking linkage. Just a guess. What you are calling "heat soaking" is , I assume, when the distributor section of the pump assembly is so worn it loses the fuel charges at engine cranking speed when hot. Common issue in all distributor-type pumps. Symptoms of that is an engine that starts fine cold, runs fine hot or cold, but will not restart hot until it cools down a bit. Starter motor cannot make that pump turn fast enough to overcome the internal leakage in the distributor "head & rotor." An air leak is not going to get better when you push on the pedal. Air leaks are common when the check-valve at the injection pump outlet leaks, as well as many other causes. If you install an electric pump - and the leak is before the mechanical fuel pump - the leak will show up fast. If the leak is in the return lines and/or the check valve - it will not show up by installing an electric pump.
So what are you suggesting I do? Electric Fuel Pump?
 
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Old Sep 20, 2015 | 02:49 PM
  #25  
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If the problem is linkage hanging up inside the pump housing - adding an electric pump won't do a thing. I'm just going by your description of events. If you are sure that hitting the pedal makes it start okay - then air in the system cannot be your problem. I'm unsure if that is what you are stating. Air in the system will result in hard starting - especially when it's been sitting awhile. Older Fords and GMs were known for having overnight fuel "drain-back" problems and those were fixed with a new fuel pump and check-valve. But those symptoms are different. Once started the truck would run and start fine until sitting for while. If you have another sort of leak - like before the fuel pump and you're sucking air - it is likely to start - then run ratty, and then quit. If you have that sort of suction air-leak - then adding an electric pump will show up as fuel coming out where ever that leak is.
 
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Old Sep 20, 2015 | 06:22 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by jdemaris
If the problem is linkage hanging up inside the pump housing - adding an electric pump won't do a thing. I'm just going by your description of events. If you are sure that hitting the pedal makes it start okay - then air in the system cannot be your problem. I'm unsure if that is what you are stating. Air in the system will result in hard starting - especially when it's been sitting awhile. Older Fords and GMs were known for having overnight fuel "drain-back" problems and those were fixed with a new fuel pump and check-valve. But those symptoms are different. Once started the truck would run and start fine until sitting for while. If you have another sort of leak - like before the fuel pump and you're sucking air - it is likely to start - then run ratty, and then quit. If you have that sort of suction air-leak - then adding an electric pump will show up as fuel coming out where ever that leak is.
I have stopped using throttle all together to start it. It just takes longer and stutters like it wants to start a couple of times and then it finally does after (i think) it pushes all the air out. Again I have stopped using throttle to start it. After I stop the truck it actually sounds like fuel is falling back under the cab and honestly sounds like it is going back to the gas tank. Maybe an electric pump will fix my problem or replacing the check valve. What are your thoughts?
 
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Old Sep 20, 2015 | 07:54 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by jmuenchow
Where would be the ideal location of the check valve? And plug it off? Also what kind of check valve? If I put an e pump would that work as a check valve in a way?

Sorry lots of questions
The OEM system already has many check valves. One is in the mechanical fuel pump that stops fuel from flowing backwards towards the tank. The other one is on top of the injection pump where the return fuel line hooks too.
 
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Old Sep 20, 2015 | 08:04 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by jdemaris
The OEM system already has many check valves. One is in the mechanical fuel pump that stops fuel from flowing backwards towards the tank. The other one is on top of the injection pump where the return fuel line hooks too.
I was under the impression that the check valve on the fuel filter housing with the return line on it is the one I should be concerned about. Part number 9k061. So what do you think I should do? Start with that check valve and see if it makes a difference? I'm started to get a little confused with all this sorry if I have a lot of questions
 
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Old Sep 20, 2015 | 10:47 PM
  #29  
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Yeah start with that. It'll help most likely.

Sounds to me like you're having a slow-start situation that I used to have all the time. Air would come into the IP from the return line but unlike the most common type of air intrusion, it never got into the filter.
So I'd have to crank a lot but then it would fire eventually.
Having full batteries and good cables with a strong starter helps a lot too.
 
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Old Sep 21, 2015 | 08:05 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by jmuenchow
I have stopped using throttle all together to start it. It just takes longer and stutters like it wants to start a couple of times and then it finally does after (i think) it pushes all the air out. Again I have stopped using throttle to start it. After I stop the truck it actually sounds like fuel is falling back under the cab and honestly sounds like it is going back to the gas tank. Maybe an electric pump will fix my problem or replacing the check valve. What are your thoughts?
Dumb question, if you use the throttle does it start easy?
And if yes, why don't you just use the throttle every time to start it like the OEM starting instructions say... Maybe I'm missing something, but holding the pedal isn't really hard and if it makes it start easy...?

I know you want everything to work perfect, but I've never hard a problem giving the pedal a quick tap while waiting for the glow plugs to heat up.
 
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