Diesel exhaust filter at capacity, service now
#31
Duty cycle is a big part of the problem here. Started in 08.
Everyone wanted to blame the 6.4 put out by Navistar.
The emissions problems were mostly brought on by duty cycle then and it holds true today.
You just cannot use a diesel for in town only use anymore. It has to work and get hot. You cannot endlessly idle away the hours either.
Change the way you drive, using the truck at speed and working it and you will slow down the issues.
In 5 years of ownership of my 6.4 I didn't have emissions problems. My 6.7 has been problem free as well.
Everyone wanted to blame the 6.4 put out by Navistar.
The emissions problems were mostly brought on by duty cycle then and it holds true today.
You just cannot use a diesel for in town only use anymore. It has to work and get hot. You cannot endlessly idle away the hours either.
Change the way you drive, using the truck at speed and working it and you will slow down the issues.
In 5 years of ownership of my 6.4 I didn't have emissions problems. My 6.7 has been problem free as well.
"The dealerships have been provided some information to distribute to their customers with the diesel engine concern. While we have a temporary repair available (released recently) and a permanent repair coming by next year, the following information is being provided to all of our customers. If you would like to have the temporary repair performed, please reach out to your dealership and explain your concerns. If they are not sure what should be done, refer them to SSM 45270 & TSB 15-0124."
Driving styles may accentuate or accelerate the problem but the fact of the matter is that the truck should be able to handle these "normal" driving conditions and can't.
#33
I live near Toronto and I have a friend that lives about an hour west of Montreal and we both have 2015 F350's - his is SRW and mine is DRW with the max tow option. He has a couple of pickups and does not use his 2015 as his daily driver but just to tow his travel trailer at this point.
I have towed my 17,000 pound 5th wheel travel trailer up to 300 miles in a single stretch in temperatures in the 80 - 90 degree F range. I have also towed my dumping trailer with my Kubota and accessories in it weighing around 18,000 pounds the same 300 mile trip with no incident. My friend towed his travel trailer weighing around 10,000 pounds to and from Florida last winter and had no issues.
However my friend just towed his travel trailer to bike week in Sturgess (sp) South Dakota I believe and he experienced the same behaviour as the original poster. Driving along the "Drive to clean exhaust filter" message came on and then he got the "DPF plugged" message and went into limp mode. He drove 60 miles like that to a dealer and they could find nothing wrong and sent him on his way only to have the problem reoccur and put him into limp mode again. This happened to him multiple times and he went to multiple dealers trying to get it resolved and they could not correct it. However, this condition only happened to him on very hot days where the ambient temperature was a 100 degrees F and higher. Once he started back to Canada and the temps dropped, the problem disappeared.
His local dealer has told him that Ford suspects on these really hot days with a heavy load the exhaust temperatures ahead of the DPF can soar to the point that the computer thinks the DPF is full and hence the messages and the shift to limp home mode.
I tow a lot so I am anxious to find out what the resolution to this problem is as so far I have not experienced it with my 2015.
Regards,
Lauren
I have towed my 17,000 pound 5th wheel travel trailer up to 300 miles in a single stretch in temperatures in the 80 - 90 degree F range. I have also towed my dumping trailer with my Kubota and accessories in it weighing around 18,000 pounds the same 300 mile trip with no incident. My friend towed his travel trailer weighing around 10,000 pounds to and from Florida last winter and had no issues.
However my friend just towed his travel trailer to bike week in Sturgess (sp) South Dakota I believe and he experienced the same behaviour as the original poster. Driving along the "Drive to clean exhaust filter" message came on and then he got the "DPF plugged" message and went into limp mode. He drove 60 miles like that to a dealer and they could find nothing wrong and sent him on his way only to have the problem reoccur and put him into limp mode again. This happened to him multiple times and he went to multiple dealers trying to get it resolved and they could not correct it. However, this condition only happened to him on very hot days where the ambient temperature was a 100 degrees F and higher. Once he started back to Canada and the temps dropped, the problem disappeared.
His local dealer has told him that Ford suspects on these really hot days with a heavy load the exhaust temperatures ahead of the DPF can soar to the point that the computer thinks the DPF is full and hence the messages and the shift to limp home mode.
I tow a lot so I am anxious to find out what the resolution to this problem is as so far I have not experienced it with my 2015.
Regards,
Lauren
#34
#35
#36
#38
Had this happen during my trip while in Colorado, towing 5th wheel from Steamboat Springs to Colorado Springs through Breckenridge. So day of driving at high altitude and several passes.
When in CS local dealer advised drive down I25 until regen started and continue until torque pro showed soot level started to decrease. The dealer said they have seen this from trucks towing at higher altitudes.
This was the only time on a two month towing trip that this happened. Soot level got to 324% before regen started. Would not have been able to monitor without Torque Pro.
When in CS local dealer advised drive down I25 until regen started and continue until torque pro showed soot level started to decrease. The dealer said they have seen this from trucks towing at higher altitudes.
This was the only time on a two month towing trip that this happened. Soot level got to 324% before regen started. Would not have been able to monitor without Torque Pro.
#39
I have a 2015 F250 diesel I bought in August of 2014. It has just under 15,000 miles with about 6,000 of them towing a fifth wheel weighing 14,500. I love the truck, its power and towing capabilities.
I was traveling home to New Mexico from Colorado late last week, a 450 mile trip and experienced incomplete regeneration problems very similar to those described in this forum. The day got pretty warm, low 90's but nothing abnormal. Engine oil temp stayed just over 200 degrees.
About 100 miles into the trip the regeneration warning light came on and stayed on for about 20 minutes before clearing. I'd never seen this happen while towing. After about another 80 miles the next level warning light came on ' exhaust filter overburdened, drive to clean'. It was just before Trinidad, CO so I hit the OK button and kept driving. 20 miles or so down the road the red 'exhaust at capacity' came on. I had started up Raton pass on the NM/CO border so I had no choice but to continue. Soon the service engine light came on. By now I was about to the top of the pass, didn't notice any loss of power so I headed down to Raton, NM and checked into a KOA. It was Saturday and the Ford dealer was closed so I unhooked, topped off my diesel and DEF fluid (2gal) and went for a drive empty on a flat long road. Soon the quick 2 sec 'cleaning exhaust filter light came on and I saw my mileage drop. I drove for about 30 miles and all seemed well except the 'service engine' light stayed on.
I camped out in Raton till Monday morning and went to The Ford dealer fist thing. They did a manual REGEN and said all looked normal and sent me on my way. They did say they had seen 5 or so similar cases on 2015's which which were towing. It seems odd since they are a small dealer in a small town. I continued on home, another 235 miles and noted one quick 'exhaust cleaning light flash on briefly. But no other messages. Truck seems back to its normal awesome self but I worry if this may happen again....
I was traveling home to New Mexico from Colorado late last week, a 450 mile trip and experienced incomplete regeneration problems very similar to those described in this forum. The day got pretty warm, low 90's but nothing abnormal. Engine oil temp stayed just over 200 degrees.
About 100 miles into the trip the regeneration warning light came on and stayed on for about 20 minutes before clearing. I'd never seen this happen while towing. After about another 80 miles the next level warning light came on ' exhaust filter overburdened, drive to clean'. It was just before Trinidad, CO so I hit the OK button and kept driving. 20 miles or so down the road the red 'exhaust at capacity' came on. I had started up Raton pass on the NM/CO border so I had no choice but to continue. Soon the service engine light came on. By now I was about to the top of the pass, didn't notice any loss of power so I headed down to Raton, NM and checked into a KOA. It was Saturday and the Ford dealer was closed so I unhooked, topped off my diesel and DEF fluid (2gal) and went for a drive empty on a flat long road. Soon the quick 2 sec 'cleaning exhaust filter light came on and I saw my mileage drop. I drove for about 30 miles and all seemed well except the 'service engine' light stayed on.
I camped out in Raton till Monday morning and went to The Ford dealer fist thing. They did a manual REGEN and said all looked normal and sent me on my way. They did say they had seen 5 or so similar cases on 2015's which which were towing. It seems odd since they are a small dealer in a small town. I continued on home, another 235 miles and noted one quick 'exhaust cleaning light flash on briefly. But no other messages. Truck seems back to its normal awesome self but I worry if this may happen again....
#40
Update on the regen issues I previously mentioned. After leaving Colorado headed into Nebraska for about an hour all the warnings cleared an never returned for the remainder of the trip back to Michigan. Since the warnings started as I approached the mountains headed west across Wyoming and continued until an hour or so out of Colorado headed east, I'm convinced this problem is entirely related to high altitude towing. I will be taking my truck in to the dealer for the recommended service Ford Customer Relation rep emailed me about.
#41
Keep updating with your experience. Except for mountain areas of Colorado, have had no repeat problems since being there. On my current towing trip it started a regen about 10 miles into trip when torque pro showed soot level of 149% and finished about 20 minutes later at a minus 4%. Most likely will regen again on way home this next Monday.
#43
"The dealerships have been provided some information to distribute to their customers with the diesel engine concern. While we have a temporary repair available (released recently) and a permanent repair coming by next year, the following information is being provided to all of our customers. If you would like to have the temporary repair performed, please reach out to your dealership and explain your concerns. If they are not sure what should be done, refer them to SSM 45270 & TSB 15-0124."
#44
#45
I have a theory about what is causing this.
It seems that all of these instances are when towing at altitude and on hot days. The DPF uses a differential pressure cell to decide when it is getting plugged and needs to regen. These newer trucks have a new turbo that is more efficient at altitude than the 11-14 models. When towing, the turbo is doing what it can to maintain as much manifold pressure as it can, and of course, you are also using more fuel Together, that creates LOTS of exhaust gas - but not any more than you would have at sea level, for instance. What that means is that the upstream side of the DPF is seeing normal pressures, but the downstream side is not being compensated for the change in altitude, or density altitude. There is less backpressure on the downstream side of the DPF due to being in the mountains, and the heat makes it worse, due to the air being even less dense. Absolute pressure on the upstream side of the filter is likely no different than similar conditions when towing at sea level, but the outlet (downstream) side pressure is much lower, so the DPF thinks it is full. No amount of manual regen will fix this - if that is the case. The outlet side will need to be able to compensate for the reduced atmospheric pressure. Perhaps stuffing a potato in the tailpipe when going up a mountain while towing on a hot day will help? It would add backpressure to the downstream side and therefore drop the differential pressure indication across the filter. (Kidding about the potato obviously, but not the rest.) The added benefit of the potato trick is having lunch ready when you stop.
It seems that all of these instances are when towing at altitude and on hot days. The DPF uses a differential pressure cell to decide when it is getting plugged and needs to regen. These newer trucks have a new turbo that is more efficient at altitude than the 11-14 models. When towing, the turbo is doing what it can to maintain as much manifold pressure as it can, and of course, you are also using more fuel Together, that creates LOTS of exhaust gas - but not any more than you would have at sea level, for instance. What that means is that the upstream side of the DPF is seeing normal pressures, but the downstream side is not being compensated for the change in altitude, or density altitude. There is less backpressure on the downstream side of the DPF due to being in the mountains, and the heat makes it worse, due to the air being even less dense. Absolute pressure on the upstream side of the filter is likely no different than similar conditions when towing at sea level, but the outlet (downstream) side pressure is much lower, so the DPF thinks it is full. No amount of manual regen will fix this - if that is the case. The outlet side will need to be able to compensate for the reduced atmospheric pressure. Perhaps stuffing a potato in the tailpipe when going up a mountain while towing on a hot day will help? It would add backpressure to the downstream side and therefore drop the differential pressure indication across the filter. (Kidding about the potato obviously, but not the rest.) The added benefit of the potato trick is having lunch ready when you stop.