Ford pushrod question for a Chevy guy
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From: Chillicothe
Ford pushrod question for a Chevy guy
So I was getting close to doing my 302 to 351 swap into my SB/sc 95 f150. And I was going through the 351 to freshen the gaskets, has a few small leaks and a odd backfire. Well got down to the heads and thought got this far I'll do head gaskets. Pulled the driver side head and got a shock its .030 over no ridge and a crosshatch still in the bore. But... The head had a exhaust valve seat pushing out of the head and the intake valves don't seal. Pour water in the port and it runs out around the valve. Heres where it gets funky, left head D8OE right head E5TE. So in the effort to get matching heads I found a couple sets of E7TE heads. BUT.... I have no idea if the pushrod length will be a factor in a head swap, I've always dealt with Chevrolet adjustable rockers so the nonadjustable pedestal style confound me. Since its stock heads to stock heads will the original ones work or will I have to figure out the length and buy new ones or get the ones that are on the 351 with the e7 heads
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Pushrods should be the same. However.. you obviously don't have the original motor in your truck, it wouldn't have a mismatched set of smog era heads on it for sure and it would have been a roller motor to begin with.. does your bottom end have a roller cam in it? Easy way to find out is if it has a spider in the lifter valley. E7 heads should give the motor about 1/2 point increase in static compression too.
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Sorry, I was in a rush trying to get all that typed last night. And my wife always says im difficult to understand lol. The 302 in the truck is all original and still runs great other than a coolant leak between the timing cover and block. The 351 for the swap is the issue. It was in a 89 e250 was told it was replaced with a crate engine so I bought the whole rusted van for $150 had a misfire, because I assume it was a wiring issue. It turned out the 351 was not a crate engine but rebuilt .030 and mismatch heads one having a bad exhaust seat.
The heads on the 351 are what I understand to be pedestal style rockers, and the can is a flat tappet can. So if I can get e7s from a flat tappet 351 from say a 91-94 f250 would the pushrods be the same length?
The heads on the 351 are what I understand to be pedestal style rockers, and the can is a flat tappet can. So if I can get e7s from a flat tappet 351 from say a 91-94 f250 would the pushrods be the same length?
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OK a few things to note.
From '87 on both motors(302 and 351) used the exact same E7TE heads, only difference was the bolt holes were drilled out to 1/2" for mounting on the 351. 302 uses 7/16 head bolts but there are bolts with shoulders available to put a native 351 head casting on a 302.
From somewhere in the '70's on all of these small block Ford heads used non adjustable pedestal mount rockers, so as long as you got the correct length pushrods for your motor you should be good to go. Just one thing to look out for, if the heads or block were machined then the pushrods have to sized appropriately, but you can check for that upon reassembly by following the torque down procedure.
From '87 on both motors(302 and 351) used the exact same E7TE heads, only difference was the bolt holes were drilled out to 1/2" for mounting on the 351. 302 uses 7/16 head bolts but there are bolts with shoulders available to put a native 351 head casting on a 302.
From somewhere in the '70's on all of these small block Ford heads used non adjustable pedestal mount rockers, so as long as you got the correct length pushrods for your motor you should be good to go. Just one thing to look out for, if the heads or block were machined then the pushrods have to sized appropriately, but you can check for that upon reassembly by following the torque down procedure.
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Awesome that's exactly what I was hoping to hear. Thank you for the information. Like my first post said im a Chevy guy but my f150 has treated me so well I plan on keeping it for as long as the make gasoline so I have to learn what I can. Its not just swap heads adjust the rockers and go that I'm used to.
The only real leaks the 351 had were valve cover and front of the intake but something told me to pull the heads and bam bad valve seat and mismatch heads so that's easy enough to swap. But now that I'm this far I'm tempted to pull the timing cover and camshaft, only for the reason that I was misled on it being a crate engine. And if the can isn't EEC friendly I would like to address that before it gets put in my truck, since it is my daily I don't want to be fighting drivability issues. The guy said it always ran okay around town but ran fantastic wide open. Which makes me wonder now if it doesn't have a wide enough LSA for SD.
Again thank you for the information on the pushrods its very appreciated
The only real leaks the 351 had were valve cover and front of the intake but something told me to pull the heads and bam bad valve seat and mismatch heads so that's easy enough to swap. But now that I'm this far I'm tempted to pull the timing cover and camshaft, only for the reason that I was misled on it being a crate engine. And if the can isn't EEC friendly I would like to address that before it gets put in my truck, since it is my daily I don't want to be fighting drivability issues. The guy said it always ran okay around town but ran fantastic wide open. Which makes me wonder now if it doesn't have a wide enough LSA for SD.
Again thank you for the information on the pushrods its very appreciated
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But now that I'm this far I'm tempted to pull the timing cover and camshaft, only for the reason that I was misled on it being a crate engine. And if the can isn't EEC friendly I would like to address that before it gets put in my truck, since it is my daily I don't want to be fighting drivability issues. The guy said it always ran okay around town but ran fantastic wide open. Which makes me wonder now if it doesn't have a wide enough LSA for SD.
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Well slight update. I work odd hours so I wasn't able to reply after you posted Mr Conanski. Its 3am an I just got home from work fun fun. Anyway I got ahold of the guy I bought the van that had this 351 in it and asked him again if it was infact a crate engine and he said " Yes, right from Western Auto" ..... So knowing how big chain remans are that explains the mismatch heads. And I'll almost bet its just a generic 351, not an actual FI replacement. But, I did mic each bore with the pistons at BTC and for all the areas I hit there was no out of round or noticeable distortion. So it looks like other than the .030 bore job the short block is OK. I actually have a couple of pics of how clean the inside is and may try to upload them later. I'm going to try to keep this up, mainly because I dislike reading threads and never hearing the outcome. So if I have time tomorrow I'll work on getting the bumpstick out.
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As you can see the outside especially from the head down is greasy and dirty
but the valley is clean
And so are the heads
I wasn't able to get around to pulling the camshaft, time constraints didn't allow that today .
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From: Ottawa, Ontario
Yep nice and clean. I'd suggest you get the Ford 1-piece oil pan and valve cover gaskets for the rebuild, these have a full steel core with a rubber jacket so they don't compress and oil leaks are minimized from these gaskets anyway. These gaskets are surprisingly well priced too for a stealership item, more than cork jackets yes but less than some of the highend aftermarket gaskets. If your motor has these gaskets already they are reusable if undamaged.
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From: south louisiana
It being a reman crate engine, there's no telling what cam is in there. It's a safe bet it's not the right cam for a 95 EFI system. I'd do as Conanski said and swap it out. The stock roller cam for a 95 351 was a pretty decent cam. So if you leave that cam in there, you'll be losing out on the power production
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Well unfortunately I haven't been able to get the camshaft out yet. I need to grind down a half inch wrench to hold the stud nut behind the timing pointer because the front nut is stuck and I don't want to damage the pointer but hopefully I'll get it out this weekend. I know the f4te cam is a good cam but I don't think I can justify the cash outlay for retrofit lifters to run a roller. But, I guess I'll have to make that decision sooner or later.. After all I have to get a newer year distributor to go along with the fender mount ignition module because the one in the 351 had the tfi mounted on the dizzy. So I'll need the right driven gear to match the camshaft
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Well finally was able to get the timing cover off and cam out. I don't think the cam is anything special, I don't know how to id them like I can Chevy parts but I'll put a picture up and maybe someone will know. The timing set is a pretty stretched cloyes set but I read that's common for cloyes on 351s. And my big surprise was the fuel pump eccentric on the end of the cam, I wouldn't think a efi engine would have one unless its a generic reman. Anyway to the pictures.
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From: south louisiana
Easiest way I've found to Id a cam is to measure the lobe lifts and then compare it to others listed in the books. Sometimes you get lucky. That's not much stretch there. I've seen far worse that still ran. Ford was still putting eccentrics on the cams a pretty good while after carbs disappeared. The last carbed 351's were in cop cars in 91 if I recall.
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OK, I'll have to throw calipers on it Monday and see what I can come up with, but I'll almost bet its a generic rebuilder cam. I loaned out my degree wheel so I don't have that available at the moment. Anyone have a preferred timing set they use? I actually measured the slack after I put the pictures up and it was just shy of a half inch. I do know that when it was in the van other than the incessant backfire it ran ok as i tried to figure out if it was just a plug or ignition issue and carried good oil pressure. 65 cold and 45-50 hot so I don't plan on tearing it down any further than i have other than to put pan gasket on it.
Hotshot
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From: south louisiana
I've run that same timing set on a few 302's and a 351, plus my 11 year old 331 that's got a Ford Z303 roller cam and healthy roller springs on the Canfield heads. If any of them did stretch, you can't tell from the performance. This is the O.E. timing set Ford used from the late 80's on to the end of the 302 in 2001. That set in the 331 cost me all of $25 at O'Reilly's