Can I play a little think piece with y'all?

My van could certainly use more stopping power. The brakes feel like they just barely pass the Federal braking test.

Which brings me to what will surely become a hotly contested question: is it possible to meaningfully improve the braking performance of late-model E-350s? Like shave 35 feet off the braking distance from 55mph?

What are the choices?

a. changing brake lines to braided stainless steel
b. using more aggressive (ie: faster wearing) brake pads
c. using slotted, drilled rotors all around
d. putting larger brake pads (and matching calipers) on my rear brakes
e. boosting the pressure coming from the master cylinder
f. changing my tires to stickier rubber
g. changing out the front brake calipers to Brembo or similar design

All of the above??

Let the opinions fly!

 

Brakes, well to begin, you would, to decrease stopping distance need to increase the swept area of the brake system (I.E. larger rotors and drums). This can be done but the inside of the wheel needs to be checked for clearance to see what will even fit. In the rear, the same needs to be done if it is disc brakes, but if drums the wheel cylinders also need to be matched to work with the front discs, and proportioning valve. At any rate the parking brake must be changed to work, it may require fabrication depending on what will be used. The master cylinder is also another clearance issue since it is tucked partially under the cowl on late model Econoline. Boosting pressure would mean a larger master cylinder. That would mean increased braking effort, so a different booster may be needed as well. Maybe a Hydro-Boost system can be installed. Brake lines are something that should be strictly utilitarian/functional. The proportioning valve is also something that needs to be changed, maybe an adjustable one that an be dialed in. I don't think there are many benefits over a standard line (I think you mean hoses). If you mean a line with armor or cooling fins wrapped around it, they are standard equipment. Pad selection is also something that needs to be chosen carefully. One doesn't want to throw money out the window on brakes every time they turn around nor a pad that eats rotors up at a high rate. Tires do help some, but just keep them inflated to correct PSI, rotate them and change them as needed/required, and that will be good enough. Strange as it seems. Slightly worn tires actually stop shorter than new tires. Idk if Brembo even makes anything that fits but if you find one that works and want it on there, more power to you.

 

I have seen some good reports on Hawk brand pads and rotors. I have not tried them yet but theya re available thru Oriely's. A slotted rotor may be ok from what I read, but they didn't have good things to say about the drilled rotors. As noted above you can get better caliers with 4-6 pistons which will clamp down better than the singe or dual pistons usually oem. 60% of braking comes from front brakes so just better material for rears if drums. Sintered seems to be best. Ceramic wears bad hard on rotors. The article said to stay with towing not performance pads. Forget where this all came from but do a search on various forums and get some possible links.

 

what year is your van?

 

First thing is free: Bleed the brake lines.

Replace brake fluid with a good synthetic one, not necessarily fancy or expensive. Brake fluid absorbs water and should be replaced every couple of years.

I have Hawk HPS brake pads on my 2000 E150 and even with drums in the rear, the stopping is decent.

Slotted and drilled rotors help dissipate heat and prevent brake fading. If you are doing track days with your van, they may help . They may help on mountain driving. On cold instant braking they should be no different than solid disk. Cheap drilled rotors tend to crack.

Stickier tires are always good to have but, when you brake, is the ABS kicking in? If so, you are reaching the adherence limit of the tire. If not, the tires are doing the job just fine and softer ones will no do much.

 

I have upgraded brakes on my van and it is fantastic. I believe the brand name was Powerstop, I got it from rock auto.com. I'll get more specifics when I have a real computer to use instead of this iPhone.

On the front I have the Powerstop drilled and slotted rotors and their pads. On the rear I have their pads, but an offbrand slotted rotors.

I think it was about $400 overall and worth every penny. More specifics available if you want.

 

Seems to me so much of this is highly subjective, kinda tough for me to add specific parts etc without knowing a LOT more............

-How heavy is the van as a daily driver OR when you're experiencing these issues?

-Are you comparing a van's handing and stopping characteristics against something else, perhaps with a sports car tuned suspension and braking system?

-What exactly is a "late model E350"? Sometimes a specific year is helpful.

Generally for a street driven E350 or any other typical vehicle using slotted or drilled rotors isn't necessary, I've seen or read very little where stopping distances are vastly improved. While such modifications work in racing-like settings the typical cargo or people hauling vehicles don't experience eye-popping shorter stopping distances. Add in the increased of rotor breakage and the benefit of such steps eludes me.

I'm sure many have used slotted and drilled rotors without detriment so this isn't bashing that necessarily. The stock solid rotors along with NAPA Ultra-Premium pads are working fine and they don't break the bank.

What I've found to be best is a well maintained entire brake system including stock-type rotors, properly working calipers (including lubricating their slide bolts), fresh brake fluid etc, etc. Braided stainless steel flex lines would be a bit of overkill I think---stock parts in good working order seem to work just fine.

I upgraded my '03 E250 with a daily driving weight of 7800# with '08 brakes which are just E350 calipers and rotors. E350 brakes should be good up to the GVW of 9600# so again I'm curious what loaded weight you're running---pulling a trailer? I have more than enough stopping power however I do have to remember I'm driving a loaded van not an M-Series BMW.

 

My .02 ..............

 

Thanks for the thoughts.

My van's a 2012 extended V10 XLT. I drive it most of the time mostly empty, except for three of the 4 rear benches.

Even unloaded, the brakes aren't very responsive, and they get mushy if used "on-off, on-off" in rapid succession (which, admittedly, doesn't occur too often).

Still... why can't I have brakes that instill more confidence. It's not a sports car, but is the physics really dictating performance here? Or are these brakes just "good enough" to pass Federal regulations? (I think the latter).

 

The description you just gave regarding your brake performance is the opposite of mine.

Buy the ones I got. You will be impressed. My van stops vigorously. Yes, vigorously.

The improved braking performance has literally paid for itself by avoiding two crashes (that I can think of- maybe more).

 

If the performance of the brakes are not good how do you know if the whole system is not working as it should? Is the booster, master, pads, etc. working as they should?
Until you have gone through the system and made sure all is good, making changes may just be spending money to fix a problem that a properly working brake system would fix.

 

Typically as we add more to the story something new emerges..........

Driven empty an E350 should have awesome stopping power, assuming the complete system is working properly. As originally built the brakes are better than "just good enough" so your condition doesn't warrant re-engineering due a perceived or imagined flaw or weakness in the brake system.

Whether you use slotted/drilled rotors or not your entire system needs diagnosed and repaired as needed. A worn or slowly failing master cylinder could be at issue, flexible lines beginning to fail etc etc.

Without offense it does sound as though you're trying for sports car-like performance however with a Club Wagon kind of configuration you're fighting physics. But again the brake system as originally delivered should be more than sufficient for safe stopping from most any speed it can obtain.

 

I agree with others who indicate that you should find THE problem with your system ( if there is one).

but, if you get to a point of requiring pads and rotors, go with the upgrade, as I suggested. It's well worth it. Stock replacement parts will cost you about 50 to 75% of the upgrade. Upgraded pads and rotors are readily available. Upgraded master cylinders, calipers, hydroboost, etc.… Not so much.

Spend the money and enjoy the benefits. You'll forget about the money in a few months.

 

My 2002 E150 has Motorcraft rotors and pads on the front, Motorcraft shoes and stock drums on the back. I admit to paying the dealer big bucks about 25k miles ago to do the brakes for me.

I generally drive lightly loaded and have had some panic stop situations which have shown me that the van could lock up the wheels on dry pavement with the ABS doing modulation for me so the van does not keep the wheels locked up. In the last 2 months in fact, I had 2 situations where someone in front of me did something idiotic and I thought my van was a goner but instead the brakes impressed the heck out of me. And I am happy with my own awareness and reaction time. I have been a car freak for my whole life and have owned numerous high performance cars including a couple Corvettes, and have done autocrossing and have been thru a high performance driving clinic or two.

I see no reason why healthy brakes on an E350 (healthy pads and rotors, good dry brake fluid and no air in the system) would not be able to do the same thing, which leaves tire adhesion to the road as the limiting factor. I am on new Michelin LTX M/S2's and prior to that had 2 sets of LTX M/S's. Brakes should be able to lock up the wheels (with ABS keeping them on the edge) and the rest is based on what the tires and the pavement can do for you. In a straight line stop, the van's high center of gravity is not much of an issue.

If you were running fully loaded, or driving down steep mountains while constantly on the brakes, I could see problems with the stock setup and could see added brake cooling being necessary. If you have inexpensive tires, old tires with hard rubber, consider going to a premium tire like the Michelin LTX's.

Good luck,
George

 

I was having brake issue with my '98 E150 until a couple of years ago. It would warp a pair of rotors in about 2 years.

I replaced the front calipers and hoses and installed Raybestos Advanced Technology ceramic pads and Raybestos Advanced Technology rotors. Amazing ! It has been 4+ years (the van sees very light duty) and no brake pulsing from warped rotors ! I'm not sure it would help your problem, but "it couldn't hurt !"


The soft pedal after heavy use would have me also replacing the master cylinder and flushing all the fluid.