'38 One Ton
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,927
Likes: 136
From: Houston
I was poking around the internet looking for information on 38 Ford tonners (dangerous, I know), when I found these videos and thread about another truck with yellow fenders, chrome grill, and chrome windshield:
I particularly like this thread since it tells the history of the truck, sounds like it was never repainted. Check out the passenger side pictures with the original door. Looks like yellow pin striping to me.
My New 1938 Ford One Ton Express (... - Yesterday's Tractors
On a totally different note, yesterday I went and looked at a local 38 tonner express pickup being restored by a friend of mine. The truck is an original 85 hp pickup, but for some reason it has the 60 hp 6.66 gears in the rear axle.
I particularly like this thread since it tells the history of the truck, sounds like it was never repainted. Check out the passenger side pictures with the original door. Looks like yellow pin striping to me.
My New 1938 Ford One Ton Express (... - Yesterday's Tractors
On a totally different note, yesterday I went and looked at a local 38 tonner express pickup being restored by a friend of mine. The truck is an original 85 hp pickup, but for some reason it has the 60 hp 6.66 gears in the rear axle.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,104
Likes: 138
From: Orcas Island Wa.
I was poking around the internet looking for information on 38 Ford tonners (dangerous, I know), when I found these videos and thread about another truck with yellow fenders, chrome grill, and chrome windshield:
I particularly like this thread since it tells the history of the truck, sounds like it was never repainted. Check out the passenger side pictures with the original door. Looks like yellow pin striping to me.
My New 1938 Ford One Ton Express (... - Yesterday's Tractors
1938 Ford One Ton Express Barn Find (Part 1) - YouTube
1938 Ford One Ton Express Barn Find (Part 2) - YouTube
On a totally different note, yesterday I went and looked at a local 38 tonner express pickup being restored by a friend of mine. The truck is an original 85 hp pickup, but for some reason it has the 60 hp 6.66 gears in the rear axle.
I particularly like this thread since it tells the history of the truck, sounds like it was never repainted. Check out the passenger side pictures with the original door. Looks like yellow pin striping to me.
My New 1938 Ford One Ton Express (... - Yesterday's Tractors
1938 Ford One Ton Express Barn Find (Part 1) - YouTube
1938 Ford One Ton Express Barn Find (Part 2) - YouTube
On a totally different note, yesterday I went and looked at a local 38 tonner express pickup being restored by a friend of mine. The truck is an original 85 hp pickup, but for some reason it has the 60 hp 6.66 gears in the rear axle.
There is a lot of info on the tonners in Wagner's book. I have worn the cover right off mine in the last 30 years.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,104
Likes: 138
From: Orcas Island Wa.
Where did you find traction tires?
Thread Starter
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Cross-Country
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: Canton, CT
I am very aware of this video having done an extensive search on the internet to find what information I can on my '38 tonner. I do appreciate the reference however.
On the subject of traction tires, what I purchased were Coker tires through Summit Racing. I got the ***-71017 traction tires and the ***-71013 standard tires. The pricing was the same everywhere, but Summit had free shipping.
On the matter of power train, I'm putting a 24 stud '38 block with truck heads in (85HP rating). This is what this truck was originally built with based on the serial number. When I purchased the truck it had a 59AB block that needed repair in addition to a rebuild. When the '38 block and crank showed up, I decided that was my best option. The transmission in the truck is the optional 4 speed with lockout reverse, and the rear end is a 4.11. It is true that some of the tonners came with a 60HP rated motor and a 6.67 rear end, but I didn't get saddled with that combination.
On the subject of traction tires, what I purchased were Coker tires through Summit Racing. I got the ***-71017 traction tires and the ***-71013 standard tires. The pricing was the same everywhere, but Summit had free shipping.
On the matter of power train, I'm putting a 24 stud '38 block with truck heads in (85HP rating). This is what this truck was originally built with based on the serial number. When I purchased the truck it had a 59AB block that needed repair in addition to a rebuild. When the '38 block and crank showed up, I decided that was my best option. The transmission in the truck is the optional 4 speed with lockout reverse, and the rear end is a 4.11. It is true that some of the tonners came with a 60HP rated motor and a 6.67 rear end, but I didn't get saddled with that combination.
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,927
Likes: 136
From: Houston
1938 24 stud motors are a one year partial production deal. They used heads without the "A" but with the part number visible, the main bearings are the smaller ones used on the 36 LB and 37-38 21 stud motors, and the crank is the short snout version like the 32-38 21 stud motors. I did a thread over on the Ford barn about engine identification: Engine block I.D. pictures - The Ford Barn. I should get pictures of the motor from the truck my friend is working on, it is a correct 1938 24 stud truck motor.
A 37-38 21 stud 85 horsepower engine would also be correct for your truck.
A 37-38 21 stud 85 horsepower engine would also be correct for your truck.
Thread Starter
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Cross-Country
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: Canton, CT
Fred,
Some time ago I printed and studied your thread on the Ford Barn. I found it of great value. Thank you.
One of the things that perplexed me for a while based on your information and other information that I gathered was exactly what motor was originally in my truck. A while back I got definitive information from the research group at the Henry Ford Museum that gave me the production date of my original motor and the serial number cut off for the switch from 21 to 24 stud motors. That clearly identified the original motor in my truck as a 24 stud '38 motor. Knowing that this motor was a half year production run with a short snout crank and smaller main and crankpin journals, I was really lucky to find one in excellent condition that is being rebuilt for me.
As an aside and important note, the individuals that I have "met" on this forum are an outstanding and friendly group. Thanks to all of you for your help in my quest for information.
Some time ago I printed and studied your thread on the Ford Barn. I found it of great value. Thank you.
One of the things that perplexed me for a while based on your information and other information that I gathered was exactly what motor was originally in my truck. A while back I got definitive information from the research group at the Henry Ford Museum that gave me the production date of my original motor and the serial number cut off for the switch from 21 to 24 stud motors. That clearly identified the original motor in my truck as a 24 stud '38 motor. Knowing that this motor was a half year production run with a short snout crank and smaller main and crankpin journals, I was really lucky to find one in excellent condition that is being rebuilt for me.
As an aside and important note, the individuals that I have "met" on this forum are an outstanding and friendly group. Thanks to all of you for your help in my quest for information.
Marmon-Herrington Man
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,986
Likes: 446
From: Central Illinois
You have a wonderful truck. I love the tonners, and one with unique features in original condition is great. Interesting to me that you had better luck than I at the Benson Ford Research Library. I even invested a day going there to do my research, but with no results. While there I did learn that James Wagner volunteers there one day a week.
Your 17" traction tires are the Tornels. Those are the only ones still available new. Stu
Your 17" traction tires are the Tornels. Those are the only ones still available new. Stu
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,927
Likes: 136
From: Houston
I'd be really interested to see the research the Henry Ford Museum did for you. The best information I have on the 21 to 24 stud subject is from Gary Mallast, the 1938 advisor for the Early Ford V8 Club. His research for the 38-39 Book has 24 stud motor production slowly phasing in staring in late 1937. Throughout much of 1938 both 21 stud and 24 stud motors were being built for current production. The later 1938 the more likely a vehicle got a 24 stud motor.
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Cross-Country
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: Canton, CT
The information that I received from the Ford Museum is consistent with everything that comes from Gary's information. My information comes in 3 parts. The first was a communication from the Ford Museum which gave me a production date for the motor originally in truck based on the frame number. (Note: the number on my transmission housing is not consistent with the frame number.) The museum researcher could not give me an assembly date or assembly location since those records had been destroyed years ago in a fire. This left me with questions. At the same time I received production numbers for the '38 one ton (4,671) and for the '39 one ton through July '39 (3,410).
The electronic text of the second museum communication follows:
We had our specialist look into your request:
He consulted the “Production Engines1/2/36 to 12/12/40” log book in Accession #417 Box 6, focusing on theentries relating to the 1938 model year and the publication The EarlyFord V-8 as Henry Built It. We can tell you that the 1937-style engineblocks (21-stud) were used well into the 1938 model year (June) because of overproduction. Then after rechecking the log book it was discovered that the first “81A” (1938) cylinder heads (24-stud) were incorporated on June 1,1938. This still left me with some uncertainty.
The 3rd piece of data I have actually came from Vanpelt. That indicated that the change from the 21 stud to the 24 stud block occurred with serial number 18-4,380,120.
Based on a compilation of the information I have, I feel pretty confident that my truck was built with a 24 stud block. It does seem that I'll never know for certain. Under any circumstances, I have a 24 stud '38 block and crank going back into the truck, and this is an appropriate stock build.
Again, thanks to all for the wealth of information.
The electronic text of the second museum communication follows:
We had our specialist look into your request:
He consulted the “Production Engines1/2/36 to 12/12/40” log book in Accession #417 Box 6, focusing on theentries relating to the 1938 model year and the publication The EarlyFord V-8 as Henry Built It. We can tell you that the 1937-style engineblocks (21-stud) were used well into the 1938 model year (June) because of overproduction. Then after rechecking the log book it was discovered that the first “81A” (1938) cylinder heads (24-stud) were incorporated on June 1,1938. This still left me with some uncertainty.
The 3rd piece of data I have actually came from Vanpelt. That indicated that the change from the 21 stud to the 24 stud block occurred with serial number 18-4,380,120.
Based on a compilation of the information I have, I feel pretty confident that my truck was built with a 24 stud block. It does seem that I'll never know for certain. Under any circumstances, I have a 24 stud '38 block and crank going back into the truck, and this is an appropriate stock build.
Again, thanks to all for the wealth of information.
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,927
Likes: 136
From: Houston
Thank you for sharing the information. While Gary's information (which he got from researching at the Ford archives) matches the information the Museum gave you, I am skeptical about the accuracy of Van Pelt's information. I am guessing you got his information from this web page: Early Ford Serial Numbers For Cars and Trucks Manufactured for the USA Market from 1932 to 1953
All the other research I have read about indicates that while 24 stud engine production began in late 1937, 21 stud production for new vehicles did not cease until mid to late 1938.
All that aside, it is great that you found a correct 1938 V8 motor. Did you get lucky enough to get the correct heads as well?
All the other research I have read about indicates that while 24 stud engine production began in late 1937, 21 stud production for new vehicles did not cease until mid to late 1938.
All that aside, it is great that you found a correct 1938 V8 motor. Did you get lucky enough to get the correct heads as well?
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Cross-Country
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: Canton, CT
It seems to me that there's no way for me to be 100% certain on this since the official records were lost in a fire decades ago.
In the mean time, the motor that is being built for me does have the truck heads. I was originally looking towards having a shop around here put the motor together for me, but I found Rich Bickel out in Edgerton, Wisconsin who had all of the pieces, a wealth of 1st hand knowledge about flatheads and many decades of experience building motors under his belt. Rich actually started this build for me last Wednesday and should be firing up a turn-key motor later today. I shipped him all of my bolt-on's. I'll be heading out there to pick up the motor on Monday. I'm looking forward to this big jump in the restoration.
In the mean time, the motor that is being built for me does have the truck heads. I was originally looking towards having a shop around here put the motor together for me, but I found Rich Bickel out in Edgerton, Wisconsin who had all of the pieces, a wealth of 1st hand knowledge about flatheads and many decades of experience building motors under his belt. Rich actually started this build for me last Wednesday and should be firing up a turn-key motor later today. I shipped him all of my bolt-on's. I'll be heading out there to pick up the motor on Monday. I'm looking forward to this big jump in the restoration.
Thread Starter
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Cross-Country
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: Canton, CT
I did post some pictures on the site a few weeks back. They're mostly of the teardown, but there are a few of the rebuild. I'm including the links here and hoping they take you to those posts.
'38One Ton Restoration
'38One Ton (more pics)
'38One Ton (3rd set of pictures)
'38One Ton Restoration
'38One Ton (more pics)
'38One Ton (3rd set of pictures)
