Hello,

i am a little bit confuded right now, since i read here, that the slightly modified 2016 super duty model of this year still uses the open C-frame? I also read here, that the boxed frame will come for the 2017 model next year?

So what am i to make of this article?

Autotrader

Quote:

"Behind the WheelFor such a massive truck, the 2015 Ford F-Series Super Duty is surprisingly manageable. If you're comfortable behind the wheel of a Ford F-150, the Super Duty adds more bulk up front, but it doesn't feel that much bigger. The fully boxed frame is impressively stiff, which is an important attribute for towing and hauling heavy loads. On the road, the ride certainly isn't luxury-car smooth, but it isn't harsh, either."

 

I think the author doesn't know what he is talking about, and simply assumed the Ford uses a boxed design. Sad and uninformed commentary, especially the point of a boxed frame being better for towing. The current SD still sports the C channel. I'm guessing the next gen 450 and above will also continue with the C channel for ease of unfitting.

Fear of flex from a C channel is simply a trumped up deal from the GM PR department looking for a so called fault to try and smear the competition with a TV commercial that try's to point out a bogus weakness. In my book, some flex is very welcome.
Last I checked, our Peterbilt 389 has a standard C channel frame, and it seems to still somehow pull our trailer without breaking in two...

 

Yeah this seems to be the most reasonable explanation. Still it think, that if ford takes the frame measurements of the f-150 and just doubles the sheet thickness, it would make a really strong frame, especially if it is fully hydroformed.

 

Might be a little more to than that.

 

Well te boxed Profile of the F-150 is 225x75x2.8mm, the boxed Profile of the Silverado HD is 215x88x4.5mm, so adding another 2mm to the Metal of the F-150 frame sound pretty equal in the result.

 

I'ts got to be strong enough to bend....and come back, if i'ts boxed or not, because we are going to bend them.

 

Of course any metal construction will flex a little bit under stress, otherwise you would have to user ceramcs or something. Only exception would be a true 3-D construction like a tank hull.

But even way heavier offroad trucks like the MAN Kat only flex to around 3°, so you can barely see it by looking at the gap between the cabin and the bed, not comparable to the flexing of conventional frames.

 

There seems to be very little new information about the matter, or the new HD Pickup of Ford in general. Is there a car show in the near future where new details may emerge?

Also is there any possibility, that any HD pick up truck may come with a shorte wheelbase as 130-140 some day? Its kinda sad that the way sturdier super dutys always fall a little short compared to the f-150 concerning their offroad capabilities, only because they got this long wheelbase...

 

RCLB - 137" appears to be the shortest configuration.
SCSB - 142" is a close second.

It's no bronco, that's for sure.
Even the Wrangler JK 4 door is 116" I believe. So yeah, it's a lot longer. Depending how much serious off-roading your are doing, it may be easy enough to shorten the frame, or install the heaver running gear in a shorter F150 truck or the SUV of your choice.

 

The SD is more of a working truck than an off road toy! If you want to go off road, rock climbing, or mud bogging..and willing to spend your money on a Ford SD well, its your money and there are plenty of lift kits and locking differentials for the F250/350 SD. But I use mine to go thru construction sites, into a farmers ranch or field. Pretty mild stuff, but 4X4 is kinda handy. Esp. if you drop the trailer at a job site and come out empty! My F450 DRW ain't got much traction when empty. But its fun slinging mud anyway.

 

Well, the current SD has a partially boxed and hydroformed frame...just from the front bumper to the beginning of the cab, but that section is mighty beefy. The rest is open C. The 2017 SD will, in all likelihood, have a full-box frame, but it will probably be nothing like the F-150...reason being the F-150 frame doesn;t have to support 700-lb axles under it, nor 6,000lb loads above it, nor tug 26k lb loads behind it.

The box frame will give a better ride, but the C has some advantages as well.

 

Yeah of course the new boxed SD frame would have to be much bigger than the one used on the f-150.

Maybe they will just design it like the hydroformed boxed front all trough the end this time.

Its still sad, that there is no shorter wheelbase. Of course a SD is not designed to do what a wrangler rubicon does, but what if you need to take 2 tons of load offroad? An Unimog is mighty expensive and mighty slow and pretty much anything else is just way bigger.

 

A regular cab Super Duty isn't so long it can't be used off-road. Mostly, it isn't the length anyway...its the width.

My choice would be a Land Rover Defender 130 pickup truck - it can carry a bit over 3,042lbs which is plenty. Maybe not quite as much as a Super Duty, but the vehicle is definitely narrower and definitely superior off road.

The Super Duty is actually surprisingly excellent off-road, even stock. But the overall width (and in some cases length) make it very unwieldy on most of the forest trails in my area.

 

Well i like the Defender but i don#t think you can compare it to a Ford Super duty, epeacially when the ford is also upgradet to a stiff frame like the land rover has been from the begining.

The ford's front axle is stronger than the land rovers rear, the frame is stronger (old open c or boxed), the engine is soo much bigger.

Shure the drivetrain and suspension of the defender are defintely better suited for offroading stock, but i think with proper upgrades, the sd will do better as a Defender 130. But of course anything shorter will have the upper hand, since in many situations you have to be afraid to touch the ground.

Something like a 110 or 120 Wheelbase on the SD would be perfect, still enough room in the back i guess. But those 140" are long way, there are indeed unimogs which are shorter, but of course even wider and, as stated before, slow as ****.

 

My F-350 is a 156" wheelbase, and of course they make even longer than that. I have driven it off-road, and on the trails around my area which are muddy and rocky granite forest trails, the SD is OK except for the near constant scraping of trees and branches along the sides. The ramp breakover angle is very poor.

Yes, you are correct, the SD has very strong axles...but keep in mind a D-130 weighs considerably less and is not designed to tow nearly as much...so it does not need as big an axle. You had stated "moving around a couple of tonnes off-road." In this case, even with the small engine, a 130 with the Puma diesel and 6-speed manual, in low range, could tug it's payload along pretty well, and with better ride quality than the big SD.