Rough running frustration
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 40
Likes: 1
Rough running frustration
Hello, all. '54 with original 223, running terrible. Brief background:
I had the engine rebuilt in 2003, right after I bought the truck. Probably drove no more than 1,000 miles, until sending out for frame-off resto in 2012. It ran great when I took it in. Just got truck back, and it runs BAD. During the restoration the engine sat on the floor for 3 years. The shop told me that after reinstalling it, they drove it on the interstate, fast.
I drove it home, and it was missing, smoking, etc. Took valve cover off, and a pushrod was outside one of the rocker arms; easy fix. I adjusted the valves. Timing looks ok at 4-5 degrees BTDC. Then battery would not charge. Turned out to be a bad solenoid; replaced it yesterday. Battery now ok.
I've checked everything I can think of: all electrical looks good. Hard to start, idles REAL rough, with surges. Almost required to use choke to keep running. A little water comes from tailpipe until it warms up. Then blue smoke, not extreme, but it's there. IMPOSSIBLE to smooth it out.
Starting to think valve problem, head gasket, another carb rebuild, unless one of you guys says "turn the magic screw located..." Sorry for long post, but that's the background. Please help before I weep.
Thanks,
Ed
I had the engine rebuilt in 2003, right after I bought the truck. Probably drove no more than 1,000 miles, until sending out for frame-off resto in 2012. It ran great when I took it in. Just got truck back, and it runs BAD. During the restoration the engine sat on the floor for 3 years. The shop told me that after reinstalling it, they drove it on the interstate, fast.
I drove it home, and it was missing, smoking, etc. Took valve cover off, and a pushrod was outside one of the rocker arms; easy fix. I adjusted the valves. Timing looks ok at 4-5 degrees BTDC. Then battery would not charge. Turned out to be a bad solenoid; replaced it yesterday. Battery now ok.
I've checked everything I can think of: all electrical looks good. Hard to start, idles REAL rough, with surges. Almost required to use choke to keep running. A little water comes from tailpipe until it warms up. Then blue smoke, not extreme, but it's there. IMPOSSIBLE to smooth it out.
Starting to think valve problem, head gasket, another carb rebuild, unless one of you guys says "turn the magic screw located..." Sorry for long post, but that's the background. Please help before I weep.
Thanks,
Ed
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,170
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From: Rimrock AZ
Ed, since you took care of the valve issue and you say the timing is good I would suspect a gummed up carb. 3 years is definitely plenty of time for varnish to form and is the number one problem I see at work with engines the demonstrate the symptoms you describe. The water from the tailpipe is normal. You can do a compression test or better yet leak down test if you have the gauge but I really suspect it's just the carb.
Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 40
Likes: 1
Hi, Mike. I was thinking of looking into that next, because I can't seem to get a consistent adjustment on the carb. Screwing the mixture screw in all the way makes almost no difference. Another thing is that the spring that pulls the linkage back is stretched out, and is not tight enough to allow for an idle adjustment.
Nice little 1 barrel. Shouldn't be too tough to work through.
I sure don't want to have to pull that head off. I'm not set up for that kind of thing. Checking simple stuff first, and I appreciate your idea.
Thanks.
Ed
Nice little 1 barrel. Shouldn't be too tough to work through.
I sure don't want to have to pull that head off. I'm not set up for that kind of thing. Checking simple stuff first, and I appreciate your idea.
Thanks.
Ed
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 40
Likes: 1
I checked for vacuum leaks; there's only one vacuum line -from the carb to the distributor, and it looks ok.
"Fast": Part of the rebuild was changing the rear end from the original 4:27 to a 3:75 Ford 9". Before this change I probably never went over 45 mph (speedo didn't work, but the engine was screaming and I wasn't going very fast). I'm not sure what a floating valve is, but I can guess. I'm certain I never went fast enough long enough for that pushrod to come out from under the rocker. And I don't think I put over 1,000 mi on it in the 10 yrs between engine rebuild and taking it in for frame-off. And it ran fine before the restoration.
The guy said he test drove it on the interstate and was passing people, so it seems to me that even with the different rear end, that engine was probably turning pretty fast. I sure don't want to picture my poor little pushrods and rockers having to work that hard. But the fact is it runs rough and smokes.
Ed
"Fast": Part of the rebuild was changing the rear end from the original 4:27 to a 3:75 Ford 9". Before this change I probably never went over 45 mph (speedo didn't work, but the engine was screaming and I wasn't going very fast). I'm not sure what a floating valve is, but I can guess. I'm certain I never went fast enough long enough for that pushrod to come out from under the rocker. And I don't think I put over 1,000 mi on it in the 10 yrs between engine rebuild and taking it in for frame-off. And it ran fine before the restoration.
The guy said he test drove it on the interstate and was passing people, so it seems to me that even with the different rear end, that engine was probably turning pretty fast. I sure don't want to picture my poor little pushrods and rockers having to work that hard. But the fact is it runs rough and smokes.
Ed
FTE fan
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,674
Likes: 11
From: paradise, northern calif.
Hi Ed I'm definitely not one of the site mechanics, but one thing you could easily check and wont cost you a dime is the plug wires. I ran my 302 for over a year thinking that the distributor rotated clockwise thus my firing order was off. It ran but just idled rough. I could visualize some kid at the shop pulling some wires to clean the dust off the motor and get them mixed up. Its a very slight chance but heck its easy to check. That's my 2 cents, now Ill turn you back over to the real mechanics on this site. Good luck.
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Jan 2003
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Scott, as far as I know the valves are adjusted correctly, but I've never adjusted valves before. I watched some videos on it and went through the shop manual a few times, then set them to 0.019. They're nice and quiet. Planning on running through them again later anyway just in case, as I keep eliminating other possible problems.
Jimmy, you've got me wondering about the wires, so I'll make extra sure that's not a problem. I don't think so, but it's sure worth a look.
Via search I found a thread about carburetor settings, and it looks like my float might be way too high. Something else to look into.
Now I'm really wondering about the timing. Right now with a timing light, it's nowhere near right, though I thought it was. Might start by just turning the distributor by hand while it's running to see if it makes a positive difference.
Thanks, guys.
Ed
Jimmy, you've got me wondering about the wires, so I'll make extra sure that's not a problem. I don't think so, but it's sure worth a look.
Via search I found a thread about carburetor settings, and it looks like my float might be way too high. Something else to look into.
Now I'm really wondering about the timing. Right now with a timing light, it's nowhere near right, though I thought it was. Might start by just turning the distributor by hand while it's running to see if it makes a positive difference.
Thanks, guys.
Ed
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From: Bothell & Silverdale, WA
I checked for vacuum leaks; there's only one vacuum line -from the carb to the distributor, and it looks ok.
"Fast": Part of the rebuild was changing the rear end from the original 4:27 to a 3:75 Ford 9". Before this change I probably never went over 45 mph (speedo didn't work, but the engine was screaming and I wasn't going very fast). I'm not sure what a floating valve is, but I can guess. I'm certain I never went fast enough long enough for that pushrod to come out from under the rocker. And I don't think I put over 1,000 mi on it in the 10 yrs between engine rebuild and taking it in for frame-off. And it ran fine before the restoration.
The guy said he test drove it on the interstate and was passing people, so it seems to me that even with the different rear end, that engine was probably turning pretty fast. I sure don't want to picture my poor little pushrods and rockers having to work that hard. But the fact is it runs rough and smokes.
Ed
"Fast": Part of the rebuild was changing the rear end from the original 4:27 to a 3:75 Ford 9". Before this change I probably never went over 45 mph (speedo didn't work, but the engine was screaming and I wasn't going very fast). I'm not sure what a floating valve is, but I can guess. I'm certain I never went fast enough long enough for that pushrod to come out from under the rocker. And I don't think I put over 1,000 mi on it in the 10 yrs between engine rebuild and taking it in for frame-off. And it ran fine before the restoration.
The guy said he test drove it on the interstate and was passing people, so it seems to me that even with the different rear end, that engine was probably turning pretty fast. I sure don't want to picture my poor little pushrods and rockers having to work that hard. But the fact is it runs rough and smokes.
Ed
So, the things that cause engines to make blue smoke are: Worn/broken piston rings, cracked pistons, plugged PCV valves, worn valve guides, broken/missing valve stem seals, oil in fuel (too much top cylinder lube additive), diesel fuel in gas tank (yes, it's happened), incorrect type and viscosity of engine oil, and a couple more that escape me for the moment.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,834
Likes: 467
From: Mason City, Iowa
Ed, since you took care of the valve issue and you say the timing is good I would suspect a gummed up carb. 3 years is definitely plenty of time for varnish to form and is the number one problem I see at work with engines the demonstrate the symptoms you describe. The water from the tailpipe is normal. You can do a compression test or better yet leak down test if you have the gauge but I really suspect it's just the carb.
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 701
Likes: 1
From: Echuca VIC Australia
Did you set the valve clearances hot or cold? We're stainless valves added during the rebuild? If you did it cold, especially with stainless valves, you might be holding valves open slightly when hot. Compression test will tell.
Thread Starter
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 40
Likes: 1
I'll try the distributor vacuum line plug idea tonight. Valves were set cold. Not sure if they're stainless, but if stainless is a higher quality type, I doubt it. I'm starting to think it's time to invest in a compression gauge.
Thanks for the ideas.
Thanks for the ideas.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,299
Likes: 1,059
From: NM
AutoZone "lends" compression testers. BUT be sure the adapter that screws into the head isn't too long. Should be same as a spark plug.
Does your truck have vacuum wipers? There's a port for that too. Check both ends of the wiper line, look for cracks where it goes thru the firewall.
Does your truck have vacuum wipers? There's a port for that too. Check both ends of the wiper line, look for cracks where it goes thru the firewall.
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 40
Likes: 1
Well, here's the latest: I rebuilt the carburetor (twice), and noticed during the first time that there was a kind of brownish dust in the glass bowl. I put the carb back on today, and the truck still runs rough, with surges. Then I looked at the fuel pump - it's the original kind with the glass bowl top. In there was what looks like ground-up cork.
There is no filter or anything installed in the line between the gas tank and the fuel pump. Is there something in these gas tanks that could be disintegrating?
I have begun to drain the gas tank, planning on taking it out to clean it out.
There is no filter or anything installed in the line between the gas tank and the fuel pump. Is there something in these gas tanks that could be disintegrating?
I have begun to drain the gas tank, planning on taking it out to clean it out.
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