Not Sure what you reference as the "Dark Side" but just traded 2006 Ford Freestar minivan for 2015 Rav4. We've only had it about 10 days but I am very pleased with what I am seeing and learning about Toyota and the Rav4 particularly. I have become tired of being hit what seems to be left and right for things that should not have failed under normal use for a vehicle in the 100K range (ie 80k to 130k). The Freestar's torque converter failed for the same reason as the 2004/05 recall, but I get to pay a grand. Lower control arms 4 bolts (un exposed bolts) have to be hot wrenched out, $500 labor alone. Failure to properly secure lower hose either by dealer or factory, had to pay for repair at 80k. The F150, wheel end units (auto locking hub), required replacement due to Ford installing vacuum release servo just under windshield cowl run-off behind battery, $500 plus. Steering shafts require replacement due to corrosion issues. Spark Plus, end of conversation. Cab corners on SCrew rot due to opening in body metal on the back of cab between cab and bed. 1/4 inch of frame rusted thru in 11 years. Both sides outer 1/2 shafts boot split with 130k and 11 years, no viable reason as to why, not off road-ed regularly, etc. (and they split either at the same time or with in weeks of each other). Ford Ranger, replace synchronizer due to squeal, miss-fire, and inevitable bushing failure which would have resulted in sensor hitting out wall of housing and shearing cam gear, stopping oil pump and resulting in complete engine loss.
Love my F150, but she is now the last Ford in the house, and she will most likely be the last Ford I ever own. When I was younger I was a GM guy, loved the Grand Am. Had an Escort which was another Ford problem and never cared for them. Ended up buying the Freestar as it had what I wanted as far as power, etc. for my needs at the time. Fell in love with my little Ranger. And when head over heels for the F150 FX4 SCrew. Never a guy for foreign made, but it seems the more I look and hear the more it seems that particularly Toyota takes care of their customer. So for the 1st time in my 30 years of driving I have purchased a foreign car, and looking in to the future I can see the Tundra double cab SR5 TRD as the replacement for my 2005 F150 SCrew in the next few years when the timing is right. Its looks to be the end of an era for me. 22+ years of marriage and all but the 1st 8 months of it we have had at least 1 Ford in the house. I expect by the 25 or 26 anniversary there will be no Fords in the house and 2 Toyotas.

 

You live in the northeast? the Toyotas had to have new frames put under some of the older trucks. a 2005 today is 11 years old. rust is a problem regardless of who makes the truck. they all rust out. only way to keep them from rusting out is to never drive in the salt.

 

and that's why mine is in the garage, tucked in for a few months! Might take her out on a dry day

 

Yes, I live in the northeast and basically have since 1978 as a kid. I now very well how salt eats up metal. But an 11yr old frame should have never rust thru like this did or where it did. I have seen trucks used for decades to plow and salt and only after 10 to 15 years of being caked in salt from the salter on the rear have I every seen a frame rust thru. This is over a 1/4 in of boxed steel it should not have rusted thru. I have a 2002 Ranger that has seen just as my winter driving and it there is no place on its frame were it even looks like it might rust thru and is 14yrs old with about the same mileage, etc. If anything it has seen more salt and snow as it was driven every day where the F150's 1st 6 years was owned by my dad and he worked from home so it was only driven 2 or 3 times a week during the winter.
This is another Ford engineering issue in which they will not take responsibility for. Like my Freestar, 04 & 05 under recall for torque converter 06 & 07 you get to pay for the same repair.

 

Late to this thread but just found rust through on my F350's rear cross member.

What should I look for in a shop to get it welded?

 

Depending on what is used on the roads for rust maker and being 12 years old with that low of miles and where it sits when not being driven is the biggest cause. I know of a 06 F250 with 80k on it and it looks almost as bad, and a 95k 04 Silverado thats getting new rockers but the lines and underside is rusting out, it really sucks that they react that way and something with 200k looks perfect. I traded off a 06 F150 with 174k and almost no rust, I have started to think driving a vehicle is what keeps them good do to air moving under them and the rain and snow helps keeps them clean. Another thing is all the cab corners rusting out is from the build up of dirt in the rockers if you look into them youd be amazed how much stuff is in there, I cleaned the rockers and frame with air for 45 mins and the frame got rinsed since then.

 

Hey folks, I am trying to find information on my 1999 Ford Expedition - looks like I have a rusted sub frame in the front (right under the radiator). Anybody have links for this..?

Thanks for your help.

 

Vehicles from Eastern Canada have the same issues. I live in the west.

Poorer provincial/state jurisdictions use salt. The wealthy ones use gravel or a spray solution. In the end it boils down to taxpayer money and snow clearing budgets.

Where I live eastern vehicles don't last 15 years, and aren't worth a dime out west. Even out here Fords rust prematurely on the box especially while higher end vehicles like a BMW can go 30 years without a speck of rust...

 

They are replacing quite a few frames on trucks in my area. Some pretty old. You can see the stacks of frames in the back lot of several local Toyota dealers. Fitting because the local Dana plant was where the junk frames came from in the first place.

People can say what they want about Toyota but none of the big 2.5 would be standing behind their product, replacing frames like Toyota is/has. Never been a Toyota guy but have to give credit where credit is due.

 

No to hi-jack post, but as for the F150, scheduled for welding next month. As for the Rav4 I have put 15K on it since purchasing in December. Its a great hiway car and roomy lot more than you'd expect. Myself (5'11" & 300lbs) my son (6'1" & 215lbs) and my brother (6'11" & 200lbs) drove it to Tampa Fl and back and we ran down no stop sleeping in car and stopped 1 coming back. I hauls down the hiway. I find I am running 80+ with it on trips out to buffalo. And we were driving over 80 to and from florida. If you are looking for a small SUV that has plenty of leg room etc, check it out.