FE engine detonation harmonics
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Tuned
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 406
Likes: 2
From: Tucson Arizona
FE engine detonation harmonics
Ok this is a long shot but I'd like to know if anyone has found the harmonic point of detonation for the FE engine. If so did you find a knock sensor from any other engine that corresponds and can be used?
A timing retard and water injection system would be nice on this 428CJ with 11.2:1 and no 101 octane fuel...
TIA
A timing retard and water injection system would be nice on this 428CJ with 11.2:1 and no 101 octane fuel...
TIA
Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,255
Likes: 199
From: Phoenix, Az.
Ok this is a long shot but I'd like to know if anyone has found the harmonic point of detonation for the FE engine. If so did you find a knock sensor from any other engine that corresponds and can be used?
A timing retard and water injection system would be nice on this 428CJ with 11.2:1 and no 101 octane fuel...
TIA
A timing retard and water injection system would be nice on this 428CJ with 11.2:1 and no 101 octane fuel...
TIA
Rabbit-Hole Researcher
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 466
Likes: 6
From: Middle of Ohio
Knock-harmonics... Don't Know.
That is a good question, and I hope we get an expert to answer it. ...For technical correctness, if not for practical reasons.
I've read that it is related to the cylinder bore dimension, and most sensors designed for the same size engine will work. The sound is in the audible range, and is many times more pronounced than ordinary engine sounds.
The bad news is that the FE is so noisy, that the sensors aren't of much use. I would think some kind of PC sound card software could detect the peaks, and trip a warning.
The experienced guys say use a piece of fuel hose (size?) and maybe plumb it into the cab to a set of hearing protectors. Simple. A fancier version is the "detonation can" or piece of copper tubing bolted to the engine, with the tube terminating there.
Kevin
I've read that it is related to the cylinder bore dimension, and most sensors designed for the same size engine will work. The sound is in the audible range, and is many times more pronounced than ordinary engine sounds.
The bad news is that the FE is so noisy, that the sensors aren't of much use. I would think some kind of PC sound card software could detect the peaks, and trip a warning.
The experienced guys say use a piece of fuel hose (size?) and maybe plumb it into the cab to a set of hearing protectors. Simple. A fancier version is the "detonation can" or piece of copper tubing bolted to the engine, with the tube terminating there.
Kevin
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,399
Likes: 40
From: El Dorado, Arkansas
Some discussion on running aviation fuel in a street vehicle. Other information on the subject can be searched for.
100ll Avgas Ok to run? | race-deZert
100ll Avgas Ok to run? | race-deZert
Rabbit-Hole Researcher
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 466
Likes: 6
From: Middle of Ohio
I found that 5/16th normal fuel hose is a reasonable I.D. It is a little stiff to run up to a set of hearing protectors (hose goes in a hole punched out). You can hear everything near the end of the hose. Then replace some old gas line somewhere, give your buddy a good long section in return for a cold one, and the money was well spent. HA!
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,592
Likes: 10
From: **** hole San Jose ca.
A stock Fe is not all that loud and runs nice an quite.
But then you add headers an remove the inner valve spring dampers.
Then you add a high lift cam HD valve spring retainers which adds more seat pressure noise. Then cover it all with Aluminum valve covers, And lastly add a aluminum intake
manifold.
Then you got noisy loud valve train then you got lick & clack.
My 02 cent
Orich .
But then you add headers an remove the inner valve spring dampers.
Then you add a high lift cam HD valve spring retainers which adds more seat pressure noise. Then cover it all with Aluminum valve covers, And lastly add a aluminum intake
manifold.
Then you got noisy loud valve train then you got lick & clack.
My 02 cent
Orich .
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 288
Likes: 2
From: Pocahontas, Iowa.
My 428 makes enough noise when it rattles to awaken the dead. It's 9.5 to 10 to one. No rattle at all when I finished.
You are totally stuck with 11.2 to one.
Put in the highest octane fuel you can get.
You probably should add some octane booster at fill up too.
Put in 3 range COLDER spark plugs.
Take apart the distributor and re-set the mechanical timing curve from 30 degrees mechanical to 20 degrees.
Put on a Crane adjustable vacuum advance unit.
Set the initial timing at 8 before TDC.
Plug the vacuum port so you only get the mechanical and initial timing. (20+8=28)
Take it out an ROMP on it. If it's goes up through the RPM's without rattling, stop and advance the timing.
Take it out and try it again.
Keep doing this until it Rattles then back it off a bit until you have as much MECHANICAL timing as the engine can handle.
Hook up the vacuum advance unit. Adjust it for partial throttle opening under load and give the vacuum advance as much timing as it will take. (The manual on the unit will help you tune it)
DONE..
The colder plugs will help a bunch.
IMHO, Avgas is not an answer here.
You are totally stuck with 11.2 to one.
Put in the highest octane fuel you can get.
You probably should add some octane booster at fill up too.
Put in 3 range COLDER spark plugs.
Take apart the distributor and re-set the mechanical timing curve from 30 degrees mechanical to 20 degrees.
Put on a Crane adjustable vacuum advance unit.
Set the initial timing at 8 before TDC.
Plug the vacuum port so you only get the mechanical and initial timing. (20+8=28)
Take it out an ROMP on it. If it's goes up through the RPM's without rattling, stop and advance the timing.
Take it out and try it again.
Keep doing this until it Rattles then back it off a bit until you have as much MECHANICAL timing as the engine can handle.
Hook up the vacuum advance unit. Adjust it for partial throttle opening under load and give the vacuum advance as much timing as it will take. (The manual on the unit will help you tune it)
DONE..
The colder plugs will help a bunch.
IMHO, Avgas is not an answer here.
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