NEW TMeyer block???
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,198
Likes: 9
From: Fairmont
NEW TMeyer block???
Well here are my thoughts of a new block.
Name..."TMeyer Clevor" or "TMeyer Windsland"
** In simple terms imagine a 351W with a 10.300" deck height like a 400.
** Cleveland main size
** Triple motor mount and bellhousing pattern. Just like the FMX block with the SB and "385" bolt pattern, but also adding the SBC pattern. Reason we thought of this was people in our previous "brain storm" like the idea of dropping the engine in a totally different body, like a jeep as example. Everybody make adapter kits for the SBC, so this would fit in any location a SBC fits.
** 4.180-4.200" potential bore size
** more availability of fuel pump because of the Windsor timing cover.
** Extra meat as mentioned for rollerlifters, also set up for the factory roller spider system.
** 1-piece rear seal
** Possible extra head bolts for some of the after market heads available.
There is enough room in the bottom end of these blocks that a 4.500" stroke may fit, that means a 500 cube is a very close possibility. The length is shorter than the "385" family, so fitting in different engine bays should make it easier.
Name..."TMeyer Clevor" or "TMeyer Windsland"
** In simple terms imagine a 351W with a 10.300" deck height like a 400.
** Cleveland main size
** Triple motor mount and bellhousing pattern. Just like the FMX block with the SB and "385" bolt pattern, but also adding the SBC pattern. Reason we thought of this was people in our previous "brain storm" like the idea of dropping the engine in a totally different body, like a jeep as example. Everybody make adapter kits for the SBC, so this would fit in any location a SBC fits.
** 4.180-4.200" potential bore size
** more availability of fuel pump because of the Windsor timing cover.
** Extra meat as mentioned for rollerlifters, also set up for the factory roller spider system.
** 1-piece rear seal
** Possible extra head bolts for some of the after market heads available.
There is enough room in the bottom end of these blocks that a 4.500" stroke may fit, that means a 500 cube is a very close possibility. The length is shorter than the "385" family, so fitting in different engine bays should make it easier.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 801
Likes: 7
From: Toledo, Ohio
. How about "400+ Clevor Block"?
. Does the OEM roller lifter setup allow enough lift to bother with for engines this size? (Unless making a mild, but heavy duty truck engine... but then may want Windsor/M/400 main size... or go with big mains... and offer thicker C size bearings, as well)
. Does the OEM roller lifter setup allow enough lift to bother with for engines this size? (Unless making a mild, but heavy duty truck engine... but then may want Windsor/M/400 main size... or go with big mains... and offer thicker C size bearings, as well)
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,198
Likes: 9
From: Fairmont
Good idea, it would not be hard to offer it in both main size.
Then it would be economical to drop in a 400 crank.
My thought are that this could be built as a Cleveland engine or a Windsor engine.
An OE 5.0 style lifter system will probably handle lower to mid 600 HP.
(Doing a 434 right now that will be all 5.0 style lifters)
and if you want to go bigger, then tie bar type lifters will handle everything above that.
Then it would be economical to drop in a 400 crank.
My thought are that this could be built as a Cleveland engine or a Windsor engine.
An OE 5.0 style lifter system will probably handle lower to mid 600 HP.
(Doing a 434 right now that will be all 5.0 style lifters)
and if you want to go bigger, then tie bar type lifters will handle everything above that.
Elder User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
From: Sin City, USA
Offer it with a choice of main bearing sizes.....maybe even the 2.25" 302W size for the really hardcore guys looking for every single 1/4 hp. I'm sure some drag racer would love to have 2.25" mains to go with his 1.88" Honda rod journals.
Elder User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
From: Sin City, USA
Well here are my thoughts of a new block.
Name..."TMeyer Clevor" or "TMeyer Windsland"
** In simple terms imagine a 351W with a 10.300" deck height like a 400.
** Cleveland main size
** Triple motor mount and bellhousing pattern. Just like the FMX block with the SB and "385" bolt pattern, but also adding the SBC pattern. Reason we thought of this was people in our previous "brain storm" like the idea of dropping the engine in a totally different body, like a jeep as example. Everybody make adapter kits for the SBC, so this would fit in any location a SBC fits.
** 4.180-4.200" potential bore size
** more availability of fuel pump because of the Windsor timing cover.
** Extra meat as mentioned for rollerlifters, also set up for the factory roller spider system.
** 1-piece rear seal
** Possible extra head bolts for some of the after market heads available.
There is enough room in the bottom end of these blocks that a 4.500" stroke may fit, that means a 500 cube is a very close possibility. The length is shorter than the "385" family, so fitting in different engine bays should make it easier.
Name..."TMeyer Clevor" or "TMeyer Windsland"
** In simple terms imagine a 351W with a 10.300" deck height like a 400.
** Cleveland main size
** Triple motor mount and bellhousing pattern. Just like the FMX block with the SB and "385" bolt pattern, but also adding the SBC pattern. Reason we thought of this was people in our previous "brain storm" like the idea of dropping the engine in a totally different body, like a jeep as example. Everybody make adapter kits for the SBC, so this would fit in any location a SBC fits.
** 4.180-4.200" potential bore size
** more availability of fuel pump because of the Windsor timing cover.
** Extra meat as mentioned for rollerlifters, also set up for the factory roller spider system.
** 1-piece rear seal
** Possible extra head bolts for some of the after market heads available.
There is enough room in the bottom end of these blocks that a 4.500" stroke may fit, that means a 500 cube is a very close possibility. The length is shorter than the "385" family, so fitting in different engine bays should make it easier.
All good ideas...except maybe the triple motor mounts. I think SBF/C and M/400 dual mounts will cover the bases as any Chevy/Mopar guys that you might get to buy the block could easily adapt their application to the common SBF mounts. Plus there are many different 5.0 mounts out there due to the popularity of the Fox/SN Mustangs at the race tracks.
I do think the triple trans mounts are a great idea. There is a lot of unused real-estate on the back of those blocks so it should be fairly easy to add the Chevy mounting bosses. That opens the door to cheaply running a Powerglide or the late model 6L80 which has a good bit of aftermarket support.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,198
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From: Fairmont
True, motor mounts are easy to fabricate if needed.
A simple SBF/ 400 motor mount would probably be enough.
Definitely will be staying with the triple bell housing, to simple not to do.
We have all seen the FMX block, we use a dual pattern bell housing in a circle track application.
SBF/SBC, extremely easy to do there also.
I like the oiling system of the Ford blocks, basically a modified Windsor layout.
A simple SBF/ 400 motor mount would probably be enough.
Definitely will be staying with the triple bell housing, to simple not to do.
We have all seen the FMX block, we use a dual pattern bell housing in a circle track application.
SBF/SBC, extremely easy to do there also.
I like the oiling system of the Ford blocks, basically a modified Windsor layout.
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Elder User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 526
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From: Sin City, USA
I think guys keep asking about the oiling system because the aftermarket and the magazines have pushed the line that you MUST have priority main oiling in any aftermarket block and that Clevelands have a bad oiling system that can't handle anything more than stock power/rpm levels.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 149
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10.3" Block
I like the idea of dual motor mounts, multiple bellhousing configs, and 2.75 or 3.0 inch main bearings. Once you have a block that can handle 440+ cid, the tall 335 will need performance connecting rods. ConRod options now are limited for a 10.3" performance based engine that has morphed tremendously in the last 10 years. A 4.18-4.20" bore would imply siamesed bores?
Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 801
Likes: 7
From: Toledo, Ohio
. Actually, the compromise was when the smaller, thinner bearings were used with shims to fit in the larger bores... having two different mains sizes in the block means twice as many slow selling blocks have to be stocked...
Elder User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 526
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From: Sin City, USA
Tim's by far a better person to answer this but I don't believe you'll have to stock "twice" as many blocks. Since you would design the block for either bearing size, then it's only a matter of stocking one block...most likely the 2.75" main since those size cranks are run by the Windsor block crowd now. If someone orders a block with 3.0" mains then a small main block would only need machining before it is shipped out to the customer.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 101
From: North Idaho
Tim,
I really like where you are going with the block idea. My only suggestion as far as block features would be to make the lifter bores aligned with the valve locations - similar to a big block Chevy. People that "know" state this is better for valvetrain stability at high rpm. Factory hydraulic roller lifters using the spider set-up are all done by 6,500 and if I'm going to spend $2000+ on a block it's going to have to have more RPM capability than that. Just my 2 cents there. You "can" obviously do it with a less than ideal arrangement.
Next - "TMeyer Boss 402" since the 400 actually displaces 402 CI stock.
I really like where you are going with the block idea. My only suggestion as far as block features would be to make the lifter bores aligned with the valve locations - similar to a big block Chevy. People that "know" state this is better for valvetrain stability at high rpm. Factory hydraulic roller lifters using the spider set-up are all done by 6,500 and if I'm going to spend $2000+ on a block it's going to have to have more RPM capability than that. Just my 2 cents there. You "can" obviously do it with a less than ideal arrangement.
Next - "TMeyer Boss 402" since the 400 actually displaces 402 CI stock.
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,198
Likes: 9
From: Fairmont
All great idea.
I see having 1 casting.
Machining mains can be a different "macro" in the machining
program. Lifter location same idea. We are not a Dart or big manufacture
that minor changes can't be accomplished.
If it is something that requires a casting change, now is the time
I would need to consider.
My idea was to take a "blank sheet" and create a block from good points that
different blocks have. Even if it is a different manufacture.
A short thought was being able to use a SBC fuel pump set up.
At first availability of pumps would be endless.
But as you work through everything it take to make it work, it is not worth it.
In using the Windsor timing cover, we have almost as many choices.
These are all the different ways I am considering this "hybrid" block.
Kind of like AMC
I see having 1 casting.
Machining mains can be a different "macro" in the machining
program. Lifter location same idea. We are not a Dart or big manufacture
that minor changes can't be accomplished.
If it is something that requires a casting change, now is the time
I would need to consider.
My idea was to take a "blank sheet" and create a block from good points that
different blocks have. Even if it is a different manufacture.
A short thought was being able to use a SBC fuel pump set up.
At first availability of pumps would be endless.
But as you work through everything it take to make it work, it is not worth it.
In using the Windsor timing cover, we have almost as many choices.
These are all the different ways I am considering this "hybrid" block.
Kind of like AMC