Starter Problems
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Junior User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 81
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From: Snohomish
Starter Problems
For my 1975 Ford I have done a complete replacement of the electrical system with a Painless Wire Kit and engine components for my rebuild. I have worked on the ignition system for the past couple of weeks and I have exhausted all of what I know to check, so I am open for some input to get this monster finally started.
When I turn the ignition key the Starter Solenoid just gives a loud “clunk”, even when I just run a wire from the positive side terminal to the “I”.
Grounding checks from the positive post:
Battery post to post there is 12.2V
- battery post to engine grounding point is 11.97V
Engine block to frame ground is 11.97
Engine block to cab is 11.68
There is < 1V on the cable to the starter when the ignition key is turned.
Replaced the Solenoid resulted in a “clunk” still, I pulled the starter and took it to be checked and it passed. When I was reinstalling the starter I just hooked up the cable and let it hang on the ground still not turning with a “clunk” from the solenoid.
Triple checked the wire connections from the schematics.
If there is anything else that I need to check please let me know and in advance thank you for the help.
When I turn the ignition key the Starter Solenoid just gives a loud “clunk”, even when I just run a wire from the positive side terminal to the “I”.
Grounding checks from the positive post:
Battery post to post there is 12.2V
- battery post to engine grounding point is 11.97V
Engine block to frame ground is 11.97
Engine block to cab is 11.68
There is < 1V on the cable to the starter when the ignition key is turned.
Replaced the Solenoid resulted in a “clunk” still, I pulled the starter and took it to be checked and it passed. When I was reinstalling the starter I just hooked up the cable and let it hang on the ground still not turning with a “clunk” from the solenoid.
Triple checked the wire connections from the schematics.
If there is anything else that I need to check please let me know and in advance thank you for the help.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 862
Likes: 7
From: like subarctic, brrr man!
If I'm not mistaken, the I terminal supplies full voltage to the coil.
The Ignition switch start wire should be attached to the S terminal.
Not sure why the relay/solenoid would be doing the clunk thing with the I terminal, as in theory it should be isolated from the relay/solenoids winding...
Can you use jumper cables to bypass the solenoid to activate the starter? What about a jumper on the S terminal? The S terminal should provide a clunk and the starter should activate. Doing at least these things should provide some clues to where the problem lies.
edit: Be careful if you try the jumper cables thing! don't wanna get tangled up with the engines fan or burn down your truck...
The Ignition switch start wire should be attached to the S terminal.
Not sure why the relay/solenoid would be doing the clunk thing with the I terminal, as in theory it should be isolated from the relay/solenoids winding...
Can you use jumper cables to bypass the solenoid to activate the starter? What about a jumper on the S terminal? The S terminal should provide a clunk and the starter should activate. Doing at least these things should provide some clues to where the problem lies.
edit: Be careful if you try the jumper cables thing! don't wanna get tangled up with the engines fan or burn down your truck...
Last edited by ZarK-eh; Apr 18, 2015 at 05:28 PM. Reason: Be Careful!
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,313
Likes: 367
From: Kansas
When I turn the ignition key the Starter Solenoid just gives a loud “clunk”, even when I just run a wire from the positive side terminal to the “I”.
not sure why your running a wire to the I terminal...it is an output terminal to provide full 12 volts to the coil during cranking. applying 12v to the S terminal should close the contact to power the starter
Grounding checks from the positive post:
Battery post to post there is 12.2V (to where?)
- battery post to engine grounding point is 11.97V maybe a bit low, but ok
both these should be near zero as they should all be grounded...where is your negative bat cable connected?
Engine block to frame ground is 11.97
Engine block to cab is 11.68
not sure why your running a wire to the I terminal...it is an output terminal to provide full 12 volts to the coil during cranking. applying 12v to the S terminal should close the contact to power the starter
Grounding checks from the positive post:
Battery post to post there is 12.2V (to where?)
- battery post to engine grounding point is 11.97V maybe a bit low, but ok
both these should be near zero as they should all be grounded...where is your negative bat cable connected?
Engine block to frame ground is 11.97
Engine block to cab is 11.68
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Junior User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 81
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From: Snohomish
ZarK-eh, I was mistaken it is the “S” post that I am Jumping from the positive terminal to the “S”. I have tried a 6 gauge wire jump from the positive side of the Solenoid to the post going to the starter and it does nothing, only to the S terminal do I get the clunking noise.
Tedster the cable is only a year old but I will do a voltage drop check tomorrow morning.
Dlburch the negative battery cable is connected straight to the block . it is 12.2 V from + battery post to the – battery post. I will scuff up the paint under the mounting bracket as the fender has been painted.
Thank you for the input and I will get back first thing in the morning as I have to head off to work now.
Tedster the cable is only a year old but I will do a voltage drop check tomorrow morning.
Dlburch the negative battery cable is connected straight to the block . it is 12.2 V from + battery post to the – battery post. I will scuff up the paint under the mounting bracket as the fender has been painted.
Thank you for the input and I will get back first thing in the morning as I have to head off to work now.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,311
Likes: 97
From: Waterloo, Iowa
Not just a cable include the starter itself for example. One common issue, did you paint the block as part of the rebuild? Place one end of the voltmeter at the negative battery post and the other end at clean metal at the starter case. Measure voltage during cranking.
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Elder User
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 862
Likes: 7
From: like subarctic, brrr man!
Seems like it might be the cable from the starter relay/solenoid to the starter that maybe the problem.
How do you feel about using jumper cables to jump from the battery + to the starter lug? If it turns over then check the cables, but if it doesn't check the starter.
Of course do this with manual transmission in neutral or auto transmission in park... And expect a few sparks when making contact...
How do you feel about using jumper cables to jump from the battery + to the starter lug? If it turns over then check the cables, but if it doesn't check the starter.
Of course do this with manual transmission in neutral or auto transmission in park... And expect a few sparks when making contact...
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Junior User
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Snohomish
This is what I was able to do this morning before I had to head off to work today, I scuffed under the Solenoid and even put a 12g grounding wire to a grounding stud I have for accessories resulted in a click at the solenoid when trying to start it.
I noticed one thing and I believe it is due to me having the red lead on the negative post and the black lead on the starter lug which resulted in a -.12V when the ignition key was turned. I still feel that at least 12V DC is getting to the starter but why is the motor not engaging.
Tomorrow I am going to the store and get a new cable from the Solenoid to the Starter as it is cheap and I did not have time to check the voltage drop across it today.
I checked the ground again from the – terminal on the battery to each of the grounding points where a grounding strap is attached and they all read at 0 V or near to it. The previous check was from the Positive battery terminal to the grounding attachments.
Again Thank You for the input and if there is anything else that I need to check, please let me know.
I noticed one thing and I believe it is due to me having the red lead on the negative post and the black lead on the starter lug which resulted in a -.12V when the ignition key was turned. I still feel that at least 12V DC is getting to the starter but why is the motor not engaging.
Tomorrow I am going to the store and get a new cable from the Solenoid to the Starter as it is cheap and I did not have time to check the voltage drop across it today.
I checked the ground again from the – terminal on the battery to each of the grounding points where a grounding strap is attached and they all read at 0 V or near to it. The previous check was from the Positive battery terminal to the grounding attachments.
Again Thank You for the input and if there is anything else that I need to check, please let me know.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,761
Likes: 8
From: Knoxville, TN
To check grounds, measure resistance (near 0Ω) rather than voltage. 0V doesn't tell you anything except that it's not hot.
First one to check: battery - post to starter: anywhere on the exposed metal part that mounts to the block.
First one to check: battery - post to starter: anywhere on the exposed metal part that mounts to the block.
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Junior User
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Snohomish
I checked the resistance from the - terminal to the starter and I had 1.6Mega Ohm's.
I also looked online for diagrams on the solenoid and there were several examples of a jumper wire on the starter its self from the main lug to an "S" connection on the starter. I have 2 smaller little terminals on the starter also. Anyone know of this and should I put a jumper as illustrated?
I also looked online for diagrams on the solenoid and there were several examples of a jumper wire on the starter its self from the main lug to an "S" connection on the starter. I have 2 smaller little terminals on the starter also. Anyone know of this and should I put a jumper as illustrated?
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,311
Likes: 97
From: Waterloo, Iowa
Resistance (ohms) check of high current cables and connections drawing hundreds of amps aren't particularly useful, they have to be tested while under load for voltage drop. (In the case of the starting circuit, while cranking)
Anything more than a few tenths of a volt under load is excessive. Voltage drop testing is easy but usually misunderstood, the voltmeter isn't placed across the battery or pos/neg connection but across a single cable leg or connection. For example, the negative battery post itself, and the negative battery cable terminal, or the neg battery post and cable terminal at the block, the battery post and the block itself. Each connection has the potential to be a show stopper, or when all voltage drops added together especially. Cable crimps are notorious for this as they age. The voltage drop is actually expressed as a positive voltage on the meter.
Anything starting out with a "19" in front of the year deserves new cables all the way around at this point on general principles. They are cheap and save lots of headaches.
Anything more than a few tenths of a volt under load is excessive. Voltage drop testing is easy but usually misunderstood, the voltmeter isn't placed across the battery or pos/neg connection but across a single cable leg or connection. For example, the negative battery post itself, and the negative battery cable terminal, or the neg battery post and cable terminal at the block, the battery post and the block itself. Each connection has the potential to be a show stopper, or when all voltage drops added together especially. Cable crimps are notorious for this as they age. The voltage drop is actually expressed as a positive voltage on the meter.
Anything starting out with a "19" in front of the year deserves new cables all the way around at this point on general principles. They are cheap and save lots of headaches.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,313
Likes: 367
From: Kansas
I checked the resistance from the - terminal to the starter and I had 1.6Mega Ohm's.
I assume you scratched paint off to get a good connection (both on the starter mounting surface and the spot where your meter lead touched)?
I also looked online for diagrams on the solenoid and there were several examples of a jumper wire on the starter its self from the main lug to an "S" connection on the starter. I have 2 smaller little terminals on the starter also. Anyone know of this and should I put a jumper as illustrated?
so you are saying your starter also has an integrated solenoid? if so, yes, you will need to put a jumper from the main lug to the post that makes the starter engage.
I assume you scratched paint off to get a good connection (both on the starter mounting surface and the spot where your meter lead touched)?
I also looked online for diagrams on the solenoid and there were several examples of a jumper wire on the starter its self from the main lug to an "S" connection on the starter. I have 2 smaller little terminals on the starter also. Anyone know of this and should I put a jumper as illustrated?
so you are saying your starter also has an integrated solenoid? if so, yes, you will need to put a jumper from the main lug to the post that makes the starter engage.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,761
Likes: 8
From: Knoxville, TN
Get the ground issue fixed to where you can't measure more than an ohm of resistance at most between those points, and then we can move on.
(Caveat: make sure you have a good connection with the multimeter - stab the contacts in hard and scratch 'em around a bit - otherwise, you could measure more resistance than is really there, due to poor surface contact)