Has anyone purchased either size of this throttle body 56mm or 61mm and installed it on a 302? I have read about a couple people that mention better throttle responce but what about power? Does it give any more low end power? I would be more interested in the 56mm since I have read the 61mm requires some port matching on the intake.

 

Power gains will be 2-4hp, seriously.

You stock 187/195 cam is very small and your cylinder heads do no flow nearly enough together to outflow the stock 302 intake let alone the throttle bodies.

Basically spend the cash elsewhere until the need for the larger TB arises. $330 can go to ... FIPK, headers, MSD, pullies, alternator, Magnaflow, etc.

Hope that sheds some light

 

I have a new Ford Motorsport Mustang shortblock with the Explorer cam, roller conversion, Cobra 1.7 roller rockers, GT40 Turbo swirl aluminum heads, BBK headers, stock Y-pipe, 3" exhaust all the way back from there, removed rear cat, Vforce 3 chamber muffler and a mass air conversion. I haven't played with my timing yet but my low end power doesn't seem to be up to par, 2000RPM up is way different. The low end is much better than it was stock but I think it could be a little better. Hopefully bumping the timing up will help some but, I would really like to know about this throttle body. It is a lot of money but if it will help the bottom end power, give better throttle response and give me some more on top I would buy it. I can't get a straight answer from any one so I am thinking it must not be that great of a mod. Most people just say better throttle response. I don't just floor my pickup from a dead stop that often so throttle response isn't to important to me. I'm just wondering if this mod for my application is kind of like adding a K&N filter, every stock to lightly modified vehicle I have seen these added on and put on a dyno got 1 or less more horspower. Those filters are great for applications where you can't use an airbox but that is about it. My Fathers farm trucks all got K&N filters and the dirt reading in the oil jumped from 3 to 80 and they lost a couple of engines within 6 months on brand new trucks. They drive in dust 24 hours a day, 2 shifts a day. You would think those would be the extreme conditionns they talk about on the K&N adds but they must be talking about something else.

 

An Explorer cam is around 260/276 adv duration someone told me, basically still a stock cam. If you went to a 214/220 dur @ .050 or a 216/220 then I'd probably get the larger TB. The larger TB will only help breathing up top over 4500rpms or greater. As you sit now, you will be disappointed with it.

Throttle response is generally how fast your vehicle will react to throttle inputs. Not how fast it is from a dead stop to WOT.

I've used K&N on many vehicles and never had a problem. If they are cleaned like they are supposed to be and reoiled correctly they perform well. K&Ns typically gain more topend power and lose a slight bit of bottom end. But also all dyno tests can vary easily within 5% of each run on the same vehicle on the same day. That evidence is inconclusive in my opinion.

A drop in doesn't give any significant gains...a totally different air intake setup will or a heavily modified factory box.

 

I have the 56mm on my 302. But it would be hard to tell ya if I actually noticed any difference between it and stock, cuz I installed it at the same times as my Performer intake, injectors, and the full exhaust out the back. I believe the stock TB is only 49mm, so how much 7mm actually makes a difference.... I'm not sure.
But knowing that I have it matched with the Edelbrock intake, gives me piece of mind in the intake department. Now all I really need to worry about is the rest of the engine. LOL

Luke

 

I think that Edelbrock really helped your power Luke. The smaller ports would help out with the stock heads. Edelbrock stuff has always been of great quality, fit, and finish.

Now that you have that roller cam...did you order that MAF kit yet? I think I figured out how to rewire it to a 5.0 HO/351W order...

 

Thanks for the input on the TB. I new it would probably only help on the top end but I wanted to hear what someone who purchased one found out.

K&N issue, if you don't believe they don't let dirt in just get your oil analyzed. They might be ok for hi-way driving but if you drive in any dusty/dirty conditions it is very obvious when you get the results from the oil analysis back. The units were installed in the airbox at the farm, switching back to paper filters droped the reading back down to 3-5 in the pickups that were still running. They contacted the Ford dealer and the dealer said they do not install them in service/farm vehicles because they had lost several engines in a fleet of trucks after the installs, dirt/sand in the engine was the cause. I haven't looked on this site about this problem but I have read it at several others.

 

Well that is good to know about super dusty conditions regarding the K&N.

I'd play with the timing up to ~14* on 93 gas, fuel pressure drop down to ~40-42psi vehicles usually run rich from the factory, and probably install a new high flow cat...that would yield fairly nice gains for sure.

I read that Bassani makes a nice direct bolt in Y-pipe and cat. 2.5"->3" but its hardcore expensive as they rape you for the cat. I buy high flow cats for ~$70. So buy their "offroad" y-pipe and weld in your own cat. Since you have those BBK's that is what I'd go with.

Also a larger MAF meter would help too!

EDIT...if you run an automatic a mild stall converter of 2400-2600 would really get you out of the hole.

 

I called Ford Motorsport today and they said to set the timing to 15 degrees or somewhere in between so your on the right track! They also said to check the plugs to see if it was running lean. He didn't think it would be because the Mass air kit I bought along with the stock 19lb injectors, stock fuel pumps, stock pressure regulator should have no problem up to 275HP which I should be close to but no way it could be over. He said the throttle body would help but couldn't tell me how much, he wouldn't get it until the bigger injectors, MAF and fuel pump were installed.

I put all new Ford parts, new heavy duty Ford torque converter and shift kit in the C-6. It is perfect, nice and crisp with hard shifts. I later read about someone who purchased all the TCI stuff I wanted to use and they did not like it, way to aggressive.

The MAF meter will be installed later with a high flow fuel pump and 24lb injectors. I have my hopes high that the timing will help.

The Bassini Y pipe is 875 bucks, I checked. Nice piece, should last forever but give me a break. You would have to get their headers 480 bucks, for it to fit I think also. The BBK's are nice and only 250 bucks. With the BBK's the Y-pipe was about an inch off from fitting. The stock Y-pipe new from a local parts shop is 425, they are so expensive becuase they have the 2 cats in them. The exhaust shop was able to put bigger pipes on my Ypipe, they did a great job and it has 3" on the output so I don't think it is causing any restriction that is loosing me HP.

I am thinking the TB isn't for me right now from everyones input so far.

 

$875! Yikes! Far more than I thought! I think my whole exhaust with Longtubes, big cat, cut out, and muffler cost less than that piece.

I like NGK plugs for performance, I have UR-44's on my F-150 and they work well. The stock regulator is set to 44psi I think, I need to install my BBK one now that I have the AutoMeter screw in gauge for it again...I dropped the old gauge when I was going to install the FP reg once!

I was going to install a Walbro 255lph inline on my '88 but decided to just buy a new Barry Grant gigantic inline. That will support what I am planning to do down the road. I do have two new pumps and sending units for my tanks still in the boxes waiting to be installed.

Your MAF kit is like mine and came with that tiny 55mm MAF meter. I have seen the big Pro-Flow ones for the 5.0 Mustangs sell for good prices used on ebay ($100 or so). You can do just the MAF calibrated for 19lbs/hr injectors then you'd have to just get it retuned for the 24lbs/hr ones. Like you are planning do both at the same time.

Your exhaust setup sounds good, I just didn't know if you were choked out up there or not...but now I know it flows well.

Definitely skip that larger TB for now...with more mods I'd consider it down the road maybe.

Ever considered a high output ignition like an MSD 6AL, coil, and TFI module?

Ah so you run a C6, that is a huge trans! What appx stall are you running in it?

Have you modified the stock intake box at all?

BTW...nice user gallery tons of pics. I have mine up too...tho' not the best quality.

 

That is a great idea about the bigger MAF, I never thought of doing it that way! I will have to read up on the HP gains if I were to do that.

I had to make the pictures so small so this site would take them they looked bad by the time they were small enough. They started out at almost 1Mb in size I resized them with Fuji software.

I plan on moving to the MSD ignition as soon as my wife recovers from the shock of this entire project, I wanted to get the mass air on and working first. I was so close to buying a super charger it wasn't even funny. After thinking about 4 months of winter somtimes down to 20 below and 8 months of summer up to 110 it wasn't such a great idea for a daily driver. I really need a paint job anyway, 16 years, on the terrible paint that Ford put on it, has taken its toll.

I haven't done anything with the air box or air intake. K&N filters have not proven themselves in my area, getting the oil analized after a K&N install on farm trucks showed a large amount of dirt in the oil, swiching back to the paper filters brought the reading back down. I have also read about this problem on many other forums. My buddy had one on his Mustang and when tuning his new Edelbrock intake after driving it for a week he took the end cap off the intake and found sand stuck all over in it. He put a paper filter in and hasn't had the problem since. They scare me. There is also the cleaning of the units. They get dirty so fast I don't really know if they are really flowing that much air. There is no way he could follow the cleaning recomendations on the box.

I have a heavy duty Ford converter and I don't have the specs with me right now and I think the shift kit was a Transgo. I added the autometer dual gauge pod with trans temp and vac guage. The trans runs about 180 on 90 degree days and when it was 109 the other day it got up to 205, I may need to add a trans cooler to tow. The trans is perfect to me, the only thing I will do with that setup is new rear gears and the gearvendors OD unit, that will be a while. I have 3.31's in the rear and run about 2900-3000RPM at 70MPH. This is a daily driver and I do take 200 mile trips once and a while. 14MPG hi-way with the A/C is my best so far on the new engine's first trip, I was getting 11 at best before with the truck as it sits.

I went to 14 degrees on my timing and it made a real difference with my setup. Throttle respose from a dead start is much better and I took a second off the quarter mile time. I just have a stip out on an old country road. There isn't such an all of a sudden power band that kicks in at 2500RPM any more, it pulls from the start, top end is still crazy. It is still nothing like a car, but for a truck and compared to what it was before it is cool. I am totally happy now.

I am going to order my Grant steering wheel and cruise kit so the cruise will still work and call it good for a few months. Summit racing has them for a real good price.

 

Nice pic's! I love your car! I will try to post some pictures of my exhaust and dual battery with isolator setup next week. I traded my instrument cluster for one with a tach, no modifications needed, it just plugged right in. I was going to build a full autometer setup with my old cluster but the 600 bucks for gauges turned me off. My buddy is doing it in his t-bird and it is really cool, he has a built 5.0, all the extras, bear brakes, 17 wheels and tires, installed adjustable suspension from a turbo coupe wired it all up and had the panel he put them in silk screened with little pictures of the 4 corners of the car, it is really trick! The stock plastic will fit over the cluster with gauges installed and everything so they won't get dirty. He got the digital type speedo so he can adjust for tire size and gears so it will read right. Talk to you later.

 

A larger MAF will get you around 8-12rwhp I'd say. Which is pretty good for ~$100 used.

You still have a stock air intake box?! I hacked the bottom of mine off and it made a HUGE difference in WOT sound and a bit more performance too. Try scooping up a used one from a bone yard and trying it out. I just opened up the sides of mine and still left the inlet tube in place.

That Gear-Vendors is a very truck piece. They cost an arm and a leg though. If I wasn't running an AOD, I'd buy one for sure.

Timing bumps are great, huh? I went with an AutoMeter tach as the factory one I had in my was waaaaay innaccurate. It was okay at idle and 5000rpms but in between there it showed very badly. I did swap in the tripometer/odometer part so I can keep up with milage better. Glad you liked the pics, hopefully it will give some idea to you and others where stuff can be mounted.

What's with that crap paint until the late '80s anyway? My truck has a crap Maaco job on it and it looks kinda bad up close.