Hey all,

The V-10 in my truck(see sig.) makes a tapping sound upon startup. It only lasts for like 2-3 seconds and after that it's gone.

It sounds like valve tapping or some kind of tick, tick...

Sounds like some part of the engine may be oil starved for the first couple seconds.

Is this normal? If not normal, is it common?

Thanks.

 

My motor has ALWAY done this, as have many other V-10 owners I've talked to here. Everyone tells me not to worry about it, including the Ford dealer. I've never been entirely comfortable with it, but I have 85K on it. Someone suggested I check the plugs, since that was a possibility but they're all tight, all the time, so ???

 

My does it when I need to change the oil! When the oil I heard the tappets or something, when I change it the noise goes away,?????

 

Thanks guys. Interesting.

It's definately got to be related to oil starvation, because it only does it for like 2-3 seconds and only when sitting for a long time(overnight, all day).

It does it with fresh oil or after 3000 miles, no difference.

Thanks again. I guess I won't worry about it.
Though, I've never had any other engine do this.

Maybe it's that lightweight 5W20 they're putting in there these days.

 

Mine is the same, fresh or old oil, and only after sitting overnight, but mine ticks for 7 seconds, no more, no less. And I tried heavier oil, and thinner oil (my 98 owners man calls for 10-30W unlike the newer suggestion of 5-30W which I run now) but I have not wanted to try any sort of additive in the oil so far. I've always been leery of them. I try and turn the motor over with the key a couple times to get oil pumped up, unfortunately my motor always catches within a second or two, so it's hard to time it right to turn the key off before she starts. I've thought of a pre-luber. I've tried different oil filters thinking maybe one brand lets the oil drain out overnight. I always fill my filters with oil when changing oil, still ticks. I have had several people here suggest I check the plugs, which I've done several times, but maybe check yours ? Good luck.

 

Ford says the problem is fixed and only affected 5.4 and 4.6 engines, yet what you talk of sounds like piston slap and I HAVE heard of it happening on V-10's. Yes the dreaded short skirt issue common to the modular triton engine family. I wont go into it, the issue has been beaten to death, but I'm willing to bet you get the following;

1. It occurs on engine start up, anytime after the engine has cooled down from its normal operating temperature. It is most pronounced after sitting over night when temperatures generally are the lowest and the engine has had ample time to cool down.

2. To me it sounds like the engine is not getting any oil. You can describe it as a ticking, tapping or a knocking noise. Some describe it as similar to the sound a diesel engine makes. It all depends on how loud it gets, some engines are much louder than others. In my case and in others, it can sound so loud your neighbors will notice it, while in others the noise is much less noticeable, similar to a mild lifter noise.

3. In most cases the noise lasts less than a minute, very often only 10-15 seconds

4. It can last longer, as much as 5 minutes, particularly if it's cold outside

5. It goes away when your engine warms up

Familiar?

 

Thank you for the information. That is quite detailed and sounds a lot like what I am experiencing. Mine is of the not-so-noticible kind. You have to have the windows open and pay attention to it.

I either never noticed it before(unlikely) or it just started recently. I now have 18000 miles on the truck...it probably started at about 15000miles.

Funny though, the article speaks of mostly 99 and older engines and it was supposed to be fixed. Mine's a 2002.

Thanks again.

 

Well it's *supposed* to be fixed - it DOES happen on V-10's and I've heard complaints from up to the 2001 model year while I was researching my own 99 troubles. Can it happen on a 2002? I don't know - but what you speak of sounds excatly like the troubles and the research I did on my 99 5.4 before running across information like this. Hey it's worth the read - you can also try installing a factory oil filter with an anti drainback valve from motorcraft at your next oil change if your thinking it may be an oil pump up issue. Some noted a difference. Good Luck

VZ

PS it must be noted that FORD claims they have never had a failure related to piston slap (if that is the issue) I ran mine right to 85K without issue or oil burn. I could go on but you'd be better off going to YAHOO and typing in "V-10" + "PISTON SLAP" - you'd be amazed - just my thoughts

 

I am not sure if the problem is caused by a lack of oil for the first few seconds after startup, but to fix that problem a K&N oil filter is now available that will prevent the oil from flowing backwards through the filter out of the engine when the engine is shut off which of course keeps the oil in the engine and should eliminate the condition you have described. I haven't actually used it myself because i don't own a ford, but it may work for you.

 

Same thing you'll find in a much less expensive Motorcraft filter - called an anti drainback valve - I'd hedge my bet your looking at piston slap (given the limited information available) but the cheap oil change you probably need anyway (dont we all at some point) is worth the effort. Let us know how it goes

 

More information; FL-820S (same filter for F350 and F250 in the 2002 Model Year) This filter lists for $3.69 at Autozone - K&N is part #K/NHP-2010 and is listed in discount catalogs at $8.99 - your call I guess. Here is the writeup about the Motorcraft and a description of their anti drainback valve;

Oil Filters

Engineered specifically for Ford, uses as many as 12 high-quality components. Construction features include: - Steel Cases
"Ironed" for a precise fit, fluted to ease removal and painted for rust-resistance.


- Pressure Relief Valve
When it's cold outside or if the filter becomes clogged, oil flow through the filter can be reduced. If this happens, the relief valve opens to provide a continuous oil supply. Its design also minimizes the chance of contaminated oil recirculating back into the engine.


- Anti-Drain Back Valve
This feature keeps oil in the filter to prevent "dry starts" after your engine has been turned off. It's made with specially formulated material that resists the aging effects that an engine's heat can cause.


- Efficient Filter Media
Re-engineered media increases Motorcraft® filters' dirt-collecting capability, allowing them to capture more engine-harming particles than ever before.

This information can be found at http://www.motorcraft.com/standard.a...M=12&PageID=30

Hope that helps

 

I'd only heard of the feature on the k&n, but if they offer it cheaper, go for it. I'm wanting to hear if it works more than anything.

 

Thanks guys. Great info.
Just to point out, the oil is fresh with about 400 miles on it now. It's changed every 3000 miles religiously(sometimes sooner, If I know I'll be busy when the time comes). Anyway, it didn't make a difference compared to the oild that was in there(2900 miles).

Also, for reference I only use motorcraft parts; I buy the oil and filter at Walmart.

Thanks.

 

OK so you changed the oil, you have a filter incorporating an anti drainback feature and it's still there. Did you go to that site about piston slap? just wondering how much of it may have applied to your vehicle. In any event I'd get it to the dealer to start documenting it - they will probably tell you it's normal - should anything go wrong in the future you'll have something to fall back on. Just an opinion - dealing with Ford over my 99 5.4 helped when I could show them the paperwork documenting the problem early on.

 

Great post, thank you. There is a link on that page which had a sound file to actually listen to piston slap, but I couldn't get it to open, but I think I'll do a little more searching and see if I can find something similar. Yes the dreaded piston slap, I don't know if I have it or not, I have Motorcraft 'S' filters always. I've tried Mobil 1 Syn and the new super syn, still have the noise. To be honest mine sounds EXACTLY like tappet noise (in a no tappet engine) not piston slap. But I do want to hear a sound file of piston slap, because it's very possible that I am mistaken. I have 88K on my piston slappin (?) V-10, and I pulled 7K lbs in 95 degree heat 600 miles Friday and Sunday (to the campground and home) and I tell you, that is the nicest towing motor I've ever owned. No big block, no IDI diesel, no PSD, no ATS turbo'ed diesel, nothing compares. Nothing is as nice to tow with as my V-10. I know why the V-10 is such a popular motorhome engine, it's like a turbine. My 98 is not the most powerful V-10, especially in the van configuration, but I have a BIG sh&*-eating grin on my face all the way down the highway when I'm loaded up with the trailer, all the bikes, all the camping gear, all the kids watching a DVD or playing X-box in the back with both a/c's blasting in the 90 degree heat. And what I like best, is I am relaxed and rested when I get to desto. I don't have to worry about holding up traffic going up hills. I don't have to get the dreaded 'white knuckle disease' when heading for the on ramp.