Isolating a possible bad injector
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,056
Likes: 67
Isolating a possible bad injector
02 F250 with 7.3 powerstroke has 330k under one previous owner. Unsure of maintenance as all that was lost when the owner sold to the dealer. Have a ticking coming from the drivers side of the engine where the valve cover is, and I suspect a bad injector.
Is there a how-to on diagnosing or isolating which of the four injectors it would be? Thought I remember seeing someone with the valve cover removed and the engine running, but can't find the video again.
Is there a how-to on diagnosing or isolating which of the four injectors it would be? Thought I remember seeing someone with the valve cover removed and the engine running, but can't find the video again.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 872
Likes: 18
From: Jasper, Mn
If you have a scan tool you watch PERDELs on those 4 cylinders and see if anything huge sticks out.
If it is just a ticking and no rough running, it may possibly be a loose injector. If you are going to pull the valve covers off, then torque all the injector hold down bolts to 120in/lbs. While the valve covers are off you can start and run the truck, making darn sure everything is away from the turbo intake and the intake side of the spider, or the intercooler hole if you only take the driver side IC pipe off. With the truck running you can watch the oil come from each injector, see how they do.
Baatzy
If it is just a ticking and no rough running, it may possibly be a loose injector. If you are going to pull the valve covers off, then torque all the injector hold down bolts to 120in/lbs. While the valve covers are off you can start and run the truck, making darn sure everything is away from the turbo intake and the intake side of the spider, or the intercooler hole if you only take the driver side IC pipe off. With the truck running you can watch the oil come from each injector, see how they do.
Baatzy
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,056
Likes: 67
Can the Torque ODB reader tell me what I need to know? It's not posting any engine codes right now, but wondering if I can get more info or if I need to find a proper scanning tool?
Laughing Gas
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 872
Likes: 18
From: Jasper, Mn
Queen of Spades, I am not sure on torque, I have never tried to watch that on there. See if Tugly chimes in, or maybe shoot him a PM, he's extremely knowledgeable about scan tool stuff. I do know you can watch it with AE, so if you have access to that, its a guarantee. AE will also do buzz tests and so forth, so you could see if any of them sound weird as well.
Pete, yes you can run the engine with those off, I have done it. You just want to make sure everything is cleared away so nothing can get sucked in. I also wouldn't do it at much above idle. I don't like to get too risky with everything unfiltered like that.
Baatzy
Pete, yes you can run the engine with those off, I have done it. You just want to make sure everything is cleared away so nothing can get sucked in. I also wouldn't do it at much above idle. I don't like to get too risky with everything unfiltered like that.
Baatzy
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,288
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From: North of Greenville
I wasn't sure when finishing my last 5-week episode of extended maintenance/repair work, so I just buttoned it all up without running with the VC's off. I'm still thinking I've got a sick injector, so I expect I'll get another opportunity before long.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 872
Likes: 18
From: Jasper, Mn
I hate having to go in repeatedly. While sitting around thinking this morning I remembered a couple of things. First, you have to plug the 42 pin connector back in, as I'm sure you know, to get it to run. Make sure you have that thing held up out of the way before you start it. Second, when I ran mine with the valve covers off last time, I could only do it for about 10 minutes. We were on a bit of an incline, and it was 10 or so degrees out and I think the combination of the 2 made the oil a little too thick to flow smoothly back down. After the 10 minute run the oil was just a hair away from going over the edge of the head.
Baatzy
Baatzy
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I hate having to go in repeatedly. While sitting around thinking this morning I remembered a couple of things. First, you have to plug the 42 pin connector back in, as I'm sure you know, to get it to run. Make sure you have that thing held up out of the way before you start it. Second, when I ran mine with the valve covers off last time, I could only do it for about 10 minutes. We were on a bit of an incline, and it was 10 or so degrees out and I think the combination of the 2 made the oil a little too thick to flow smoothly back down. After the 10 minute run the oil was just a hair away from going over the edge of the head.
Baatzy
Baatzy
1. You can drive it without valvecovers if you wanted to.
2. Torque won't tell you squat unless you have custom PIDs
3. What you need is a 'breakout box' It will save you a day of digging into valve coveres.
Breakout box is an extension of the 42 connector with switches to disable injectors one at a time. Ask someone locally, call a few diesel shops, it will take 10 minutes to figure it out, good luck.
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Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
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From: Puget Sound
"Ticking" can be caused by...
an exhaust leak - look for soot.
air in fuel will cause this noise.
low injector torque (120 in/lbs).
bad injector.
bad injector O-rings.
AE can do PERDELs, but I have found that to be a dubious source of information when it comes to 3 and 8 (25% of our cylinders).
IR gun. Seriously. That's one of the handiest tools I own, and I see them anywhere from a couple of Quarter Caliber rounds to a full Buck$Zooka round. I have 2 - one fits in my pocket and its good for up to 230 degrees F - and the other one is the pistol style that is good for up to 900 degrees F. If you aim the gun right, you can find a cool cylinder at idle - but the noise source isn't hard to locate.
If the idle is smooth and the injector knocks, you can try to silence it with O-rings, torquing, and a Hutch mod.
an exhaust leak - look for soot.
air in fuel will cause this noise.
low injector torque (120 in/lbs).
bad injector.
bad injector O-rings.
AE can do PERDELs, but I have found that to be a dubious source of information when it comes to 3 and 8 (25% of our cylinders).
IR gun. Seriously. That's one of the handiest tools I own, and I see them anywhere from a couple of Quarter Caliber rounds to a full Buck$Zooka round. I have 2 - one fits in my pocket and its good for up to 230 degrees F - and the other one is the pistol style that is good for up to 900 degrees F. If you aim the gun right, you can find a cool cylinder at idle - but the noise source isn't hard to locate.
If the idle is smooth and the injector knocks, you can try to silence it with O-rings, torquing, and a Hutch mod.
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,056
Likes: 67
"Ticking" can be caused by...
an exhaust leak - look for soot.
air in fuel will cause this noise.
low injector torque (120 in/lbs).
bad injector.
bad injector O-rings.
AE can do PERDELs, but I have found that to be a dubious source of information when it comes to 3 and 8 (25% of our cylinders).
IR gun. Seriously. That's one of the handiest tools I own, and I see them anywhere from a couple of Quarter Caliber rounds to a full Buck$Zooka round. I have 2 - one fits in my pocket and its good for up to 230 degrees F - and the other one is the pistol style that is good for up to 900 degrees F. If you aim the gun right, you can find a cool cylinder at idle - but the noise source isn't hard to locate.
If the idle is smooth and the injector knocks, you can try to silence it with O-rings, torquing, and a Hutch mod.
an exhaust leak - look for soot.
air in fuel will cause this noise.
low injector torque (120 in/lbs).
bad injector.
bad injector O-rings.
AE can do PERDELs, but I have found that to be a dubious source of information when it comes to 3 and 8 (25% of our cylinders).
IR gun. Seriously. That's one of the handiest tools I own, and I see them anywhere from a couple of Quarter Caliber rounds to a full Buck$Zooka round. I have 2 - one fits in my pocket and its good for up to 230 degrees F - and the other one is the pistol style that is good for up to 900 degrees F. If you aim the gun right, you can find a cool cylinder at idle - but the noise source isn't hard to locate.
If the idle is smooth and the injector knocks, you can try to silence it with O-rings, torquing, and a Hutch mod.
Had a tech come by with AE this morning. AE found zero issues with injectors after buzz and contribution tests. He said that on a high mileage truck like this, he would expect to see evidence of blow by and found none. He estimated that the injectors were replaced at some point. Said the motor was in overall very good condition for its age, and that I should keep on top of scheduled maintenance.
There were a couple minor issues he found, low fuel pressure and he said that was likely caused by partially clogged tank filters. The other was a bad exhaust pressure sensor. Looks like the latter is easy to get at and replace. Tank filters are an involved job he said.
Going to your first point above, he shined a flashlight at the Y joint behind the turbo and found that drivers side joint was missing a bolt.. black soot around the joint. Looks like that's where my ticking may be coming from.
He asked what I paid for it, and said I got a bargain. Makes me feel a little better considering the $4000 I lost on an older F350 last year.
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
Wow... I'm a good guesser on this one. Exhaust leak is the tick, you want to get that fixed. Low fuel pressure would likely be fixed by the Hutch mod, this addresses the partially-clogged tank filters your mechanic was talking about. Many of us forum members have done that one ourselves.
I can troubleshoot, but I suck at turning wrenches on this beast. I had to drop the tank 5 times to finally get it right, but this demonstrates how "involved" this work is not.
I can troubleshoot, but I suck at turning wrenches on this beast. I had to drop the tank 5 times to finally get it right, but this demonstrates how "involved" this work is not.
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
"Ticking" can be caused by... an exhaust leak - look for soot. air in fuel will cause this noise. low injector torque (120 in/lbs). bad injector. bad injector O-rings. AE can do PERDELs, but I have found that to be a dubious source of information when it comes to 3 and 8 (25% of our cylinders). IR gun. Seriously. That's one of the handiest tools I own, and I see them anywhere from a couple of Quarter Caliber rounds to a full Buck$Zooka round. I have 2 - one fits in my pocket and its good for up to 230 degrees F - and the other one is the pistol style that is good for up to 900 degrees F. If you aim the gun right, you can find a cool cylinder at idle - but the noise source isn't hard to locate. If the idle is smooth and the injector knocks, you can try to silence it with O-rings, torquing, and a Hutch mod.
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
That was in my early days of ownership and I thought I broke my truck. The mechanic said it was an injector and he swapped it out. That took care of the problem. Knowing what I know now, I can't say there's anything beyond replacement to fix this noise, but O-rings are worth a try.
