Duraspark conversion on 85 E-150 EEClV TFI
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Duraspark conversion on 85 E-150 EEClV TFI
Hi, I have a 1985 E150 with a 302, EEC IV TFI feedback carb. All the original system is there and connected but the engine is not idling right and it has a terrible lack of power going up hills on the highway.
I have put new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and set the timing. Replaced the right exhaust manifold and while doing so, replaced the choke stove tubs. Also replaced the vacuum choke pull off. Pulled the codes and there were no codes.
At times it starts skipping like the EGR valve is partially opened but I disconnected the vacuum line and there was no change.
Compression, cold, and with no iol put in the cylinders was 163 to 165 on all cylinders. I connected a vacuum gauge and it is steady at 20. If you reeve the gauge drops to almost 0 and quickly bounces back up to 20.
When it is skipping, the vacuum drops to 16 or so. I suspect something that is tempature controlled is opening up sometimes..
But anyway I want to do the duraspark conversion.
I have read that a harness from an 80 to 83 should be plug and play. I have called all over the state and have not found one. I know where a 83 van is about 150 miles from here but don't know if the harness is still on it.
In the mean time I acquired a wiring harness from a 79e-150. I cut the harness where it entered into the firewall but unplugged all of the connectors from there on including the headlights. All of the wires are taped into one bundle, I also have the blue module and coil. I will need to buy a carb, and distributor.
I have read many threads on this forum but am a bit confused as to the wiring. I know I have to untape the harness and pull out the needed wires and understand the basic ignition wiring from the module on. What I need help with is plugging in the duraspark module to the wires coming out of the firewall. i can not find an existing plug on the van that has just a red and white wire on it and I don't know where the ballast wire would be.
I have put new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and set the timing. Replaced the right exhaust manifold and while doing so, replaced the choke stove tubs. Also replaced the vacuum choke pull off. Pulled the codes and there were no codes.
At times it starts skipping like the EGR valve is partially opened but I disconnected the vacuum line and there was no change.
Compression, cold, and with no iol put in the cylinders was 163 to 165 on all cylinders. I connected a vacuum gauge and it is steady at 20. If you reeve the gauge drops to almost 0 and quickly bounces back up to 20.
When it is skipping, the vacuum drops to 16 or so. I suspect something that is tempature controlled is opening up sometimes..
But anyway I want to do the duraspark conversion.
I have read that a harness from an 80 to 83 should be plug and play. I have called all over the state and have not found one. I know where a 83 van is about 150 miles from here but don't know if the harness is still on it.
In the mean time I acquired a wiring harness from a 79e-150. I cut the harness where it entered into the firewall but unplugged all of the connectors from there on including the headlights. All of the wires are taped into one bundle, I also have the blue module and coil. I will need to buy a carb, and distributor.
I have read many threads on this forum but am a bit confused as to the wiring. I know I have to untape the harness and pull out the needed wires and understand the basic ignition wiring from the module on. What I need help with is plugging in the duraspark module to the wires coming out of the firewall. i can not find an existing plug on the van that has just a red and white wire on it and I don't know where the ballast wire would be.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,100
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Can not help you at all with this wiring.......sorry.
But, just a question?
Your
Have you checked the back-flow of the Catalytic Converter?
Generally a lack of power on the highway is a plugged Cat.
There is a tester for "back-flow pressure" that screws into the O2 and can check for a plug Cat or plugged muffler in minutes.
The drop in the vacuum could be a line/hose leak, or bad gasket or even a bad seal/gasket on the carb.
BTW......you got great compression on that engine
But, just a question?
Your
"it has a terrible lack of power going up hills on the highway"
Generally a lack of power on the highway is a plugged Cat.
There is a tester for "back-flow pressure" that screws into the O2 and can check for a plug Cat or plugged muffler in minutes.
The drop in the vacuum could be a line/hose leak, or bad gasket or even a bad seal/gasket on the carb.
BTW......you got great compression on that engine
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Hi Wildman, Thanks for the reply.
I have thought about the cat being clogged.
I don't know how true this is, but I read that you can also check back pressure with a vacuum gauge. The vacuum gauge actually reads 21.5hg most of the time. If you reeve the engine to around 2000 RPM and hold it there, if there is a restriction in the exhaust, the gauge will slowly drop lower and lower.. It does not do that.
Here is a site that says: Exhaust Back Pressure
Starting with the engine at idle, slowly increase engine speed to 3,000 RPM, engine vacuum should be equal to or higher than idle vacuum at 3,000 RPM. If vacuum decreases at higher engine RPM's, an excessive exhaust back pressure is probably present.
Technical Articles: Engine testing with a Vacuum Gauge - at Greg's Engine & Machine
The two tests listed above seem to check out fine.
I have the dog house off and if I can find an adapter to fit in where the oxygen sensor goes, I have read I can use the vacuum gauge there. If the pressure is over 1 psi, then there would be a problem with the cat. That might be the best way to check it.
Now driving down the road is a different story with the vacuum and I am not sure what to watch for when doing that test. The more gas you give the engine, the farther the vacuum drops, almost down to 5hg if you floor it. Letting off the accelerator peddle, it comes back up proportional to how much you let off the accelerator and what load the engine is under. On a flat, with very little throttle, the vacuum returns to normal range. I need to learn more about reading the gauge while driving.
when the engine starts skipping and the vacuum drops to 15 or 16, that happens all at once, there is no slow drop in vacuum.
There are tons of vacuum lines and 6 to 8 vacuum solenoids along with a temperature regulated vacuum valve. That is why I thought that maybe something was opening and the problem is within that area.
There is oil seeping out around the back of the intake manifold and I sprayed brake kleen around it while the engine was running and there was no change in the engine.
It could very well be in the feedback carb. I have a rebuild kit but the last carb I tried to rebuild didn't turn out so well, it ran but runs very rich..
i have only had this van for a few months and the PO said that the van sat for a long time, how long i am not sure. It has 148,000 miles on it. There are several other problems but most of them are not major at this time. My plan is to fix this for a dependable daily driver that I can also use for vacations. That is part of the reason i was thinking about the Duraspark conversion as that would simplify maintenance quite a bit.
Again thanks for the advice. I will find a adapter to go in the o2 sensor hole and check the cat that way..
I have thought about the cat being clogged.
I don't know how true this is, but I read that you can also check back pressure with a vacuum gauge. The vacuum gauge actually reads 21.5hg most of the time. If you reeve the engine to around 2000 RPM and hold it there, if there is a restriction in the exhaust, the gauge will slowly drop lower and lower.. It does not do that.
Here is a site that says: Exhaust Back Pressure
Starting with the engine at idle, slowly increase engine speed to 3,000 RPM, engine vacuum should be equal to or higher than idle vacuum at 3,000 RPM. If vacuum decreases at higher engine RPM's, an excessive exhaust back pressure is probably present.
Technical Articles: Engine testing with a Vacuum Gauge - at Greg's Engine & Machine
The two tests listed above seem to check out fine.
I have the dog house off and if I can find an adapter to fit in where the oxygen sensor goes, I have read I can use the vacuum gauge there. If the pressure is over 1 psi, then there would be a problem with the cat. That might be the best way to check it.
Now driving down the road is a different story with the vacuum and I am not sure what to watch for when doing that test. The more gas you give the engine, the farther the vacuum drops, almost down to 5hg if you floor it. Letting off the accelerator peddle, it comes back up proportional to how much you let off the accelerator and what load the engine is under. On a flat, with very little throttle, the vacuum returns to normal range. I need to learn more about reading the gauge while driving.
when the engine starts skipping and the vacuum drops to 15 or 16, that happens all at once, there is no slow drop in vacuum.
There are tons of vacuum lines and 6 to 8 vacuum solenoids along with a temperature regulated vacuum valve. That is why I thought that maybe something was opening and the problem is within that area.
There is oil seeping out around the back of the intake manifold and I sprayed brake kleen around it while the engine was running and there was no change in the engine.
It could very well be in the feedback carb. I have a rebuild kit but the last carb I tried to rebuild didn't turn out so well, it ran but runs very rich..
i have only had this van for a few months and the PO said that the van sat for a long time, how long i am not sure. It has 148,000 miles on it. There are several other problems but most of them are not major at this time. My plan is to fix this for a dependable daily driver that I can also use for vacations. That is part of the reason i was thinking about the Duraspark conversion as that would simplify maintenance quite a bit.
Again thanks for the advice. I will find a adapter to go in the o2 sensor hole and check the cat that way..
Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2014
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annaleigh, I read that posted link on the vacuum gauge testing, very well written.
I'll be honest, I have not worked on a carb engine for the past 15 years, but prior to that, worked on a few.
In the back of my head (way back) I know that you would have a C6 transmission on that van, they stilled used the TV cable and vacuum modulators to control shifting on the C6.
I know this is not quite what you were asking, but, I'm pointing these items out as to the problem your having with lack of power going up-hill.
When you encounter a hill, do you "mash" the gas pedal down, and it will "kick-down" to a lower, or passing gear??
You should try this with the vacuum gauge attached.
I'm bring this up, because as you write, the vacuum is steady in "park" idle/reved up, but in gear, the vacuum drops. All engines will act different when put in gear, or as they say, 'with a load on'
Back to the link, if you read the main body, it will say that Most engine problems will effect transmission. And some transmission problems will effect engine performance.
Back to you "oil leak" at the rear intake manifold, if the oil is leaking out of the intake manifold, there is a good chance that there is a vacuum leak present also.
I have read that the carb can become loose, and cause a vacuum leak, others might jump in here with the details on that item.
Also, if you can find a fitting to attach the vacuum gauge to the O2 sensor, beware that this will get Very Hot, like 400*+ hot, and only in a few minutes/seconds, so be careful of what you use, and how it's run.
I'm not steering you away from your original post, it's just that there are many other factors to consider before making a major change on the electrical system, and then have the same pre-existing condition continue.
Kind of keeping with the K.I.S.S. method of things.
I'll be honest, I have not worked on a carb engine for the past 15 years, but prior to that, worked on a few.
In the back of my head (way back) I know that you would have a C6 transmission on that van, they stilled used the TV cable and vacuum modulators to control shifting on the C6.
I know this is not quite what you were asking, but, I'm pointing these items out as to the problem your having with lack of power going up-hill.
When you encounter a hill, do you "mash" the gas pedal down, and it will "kick-down" to a lower, or passing gear??
You should try this with the vacuum gauge attached.
I'm bring this up, because as you write, the vacuum is steady in "park" idle/reved up, but in gear, the vacuum drops. All engines will act different when put in gear, or as they say, 'with a load on'
Back to the link, if you read the main body, it will say that Most engine problems will effect transmission. And some transmission problems will effect engine performance.
Back to you "oil leak" at the rear intake manifold, if the oil is leaking out of the intake manifold, there is a good chance that there is a vacuum leak present also.
I have read that the carb can become loose, and cause a vacuum leak, others might jump in here with the details on that item.
Also, if you can find a fitting to attach the vacuum gauge to the O2 sensor, beware that this will get Very Hot, like 400*+ hot, and only in a few minutes/seconds, so be careful of what you use, and how it's run.
I'm not steering you away from your original post, it's just that there are many other factors to consider before making a major change on the electrical system, and then have the same pre-existing condition continue.
Kind of keeping with the K.I.S.S. method of things.
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Thnaks for taking the time to help out Wildman and glad you liked the link.
This van has a AOD transmission in it. When on the interstate and cruising say 65, when you start up a long medium grade, I have to press the peddle all the way down to keep up speed and then sometimes the speed continues to drop. When I say press all the way down, I mean till the peddle gets a bit hard, just before it kicks down into 3rd. I have learned it actually gets better gas mialge if I just kick it down into 3rd as I can then let off the gas. It will pick up speed once kicked down to 3rd.
When we first got the van, the brakes were sticking and the transmission was holding in 1st and 2nd too long. Here is what we did shortly after we got the van. It had a axle bearing going out and a slightly loose u-joint. Got it up on stands and changed the transmission fluid and adjusted the TV pressure. took the rear axle apart including taking out the differential. Cleaned the housing, had new bearings pressed on, put everything back together complete with new drums, shoes, and wheel cylinders. Then we did new calipers, rotors, pads, flexible rubber lines, and master cylinder. Took the drive shaft and had new u-joints and center bearing installed. All of that should have pretty much have taken care of any resistance in the drive-line.. Unless there is something in the transmission that can cause a drag. It is still not shifting right but was told that could be the engine problem too.
I have not checked if the carb is loose yet. I did spray brake clean on the intake where the oil is seeping from and there was no change in idle speed. I have read that idle speed will change if the intake is leaking. I also read that it is normal for the vacuum to drop when you open the throttle under a load driving down the road. Here is something i came across about vacuum under load.
IDLE - 18-22
DECEL - 22-30
ECONOMY - 10-18
POWER - 0-10
Hyundai Forums : Hyundai Forum - View Single Post - Poor Fuel Economy
YEs and thank you.. I would rather find a simple fix and do the duraspark conversion later.. . My neighbor works for Toyota and suggested I change all the vacuum hoses..
This van has a AOD transmission in it. When on the interstate and cruising say 65, when you start up a long medium grade, I have to press the peddle all the way down to keep up speed and then sometimes the speed continues to drop. When I say press all the way down, I mean till the peddle gets a bit hard, just before it kicks down into 3rd. I have learned it actually gets better gas mialge if I just kick it down into 3rd as I can then let off the gas. It will pick up speed once kicked down to 3rd.
When we first got the van, the brakes were sticking and the transmission was holding in 1st and 2nd too long. Here is what we did shortly after we got the van. It had a axle bearing going out and a slightly loose u-joint. Got it up on stands and changed the transmission fluid and adjusted the TV pressure. took the rear axle apart including taking out the differential. Cleaned the housing, had new bearings pressed on, put everything back together complete with new drums, shoes, and wheel cylinders. Then we did new calipers, rotors, pads, flexible rubber lines, and master cylinder. Took the drive shaft and had new u-joints and center bearing installed. All of that should have pretty much have taken care of any resistance in the drive-line.. Unless there is something in the transmission that can cause a drag. It is still not shifting right but was told that could be the engine problem too.
I have not checked if the carb is loose yet. I did spray brake clean on the intake where the oil is seeping from and there was no change in idle speed. I have read that idle speed will change if the intake is leaking. I also read that it is normal for the vacuum to drop when you open the throttle under a load driving down the road. Here is something i came across about vacuum under load.
IDLE - 18-22
DECEL - 22-30
ECONOMY - 10-18
POWER - 0-10
Hyundai Forums : Hyundai Forum - View Single Post - Poor Fuel Economy
YEs and thank you.. I would rather find a simple fix and do the duraspark conversion later.. . My neighbor works for Toyota and suggested I change all the vacuum hoses..
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I did this about a year ago
The vans are not like the F trucks. Everyone on the 6 cyl forum I frequent says it plugs right into their pickup truck harness. Unless you have a van. Then the DS-II plug is not in the factory harness. My mechanic friend printed out the 1983 and 1985 van engine wiring for the 300 six from AllData for me and I eventually figured out what wires to reroute. I imagine the 302 would be near the same. It wasn't too bad after I identified all the connectors in the bay with the schematic. Maybe 6 wires. I had to 'rebuild' the '83 harness I got at the junk yard. You do need to remove a couple wires from the factory multi pin connector plugs and swap 'em around. I have PDFs of the schematics, but photobucket won't upload them. Have an email addy? RECURVE your distributor. You need (1) Mr. Gasket 925D spring and the guide at classic inlines.com Only bend the tab about half what they do for a light car tho. Trucks need a slower curve. Classic Inlines - Duraspark II Swap I ran my van with the DSII dizzy and the computer carb for a couple weeks before I changed the intake and it still ran better than stock.
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Thank you Econo4spd..
I certainly could use the wiring diagrams... And thanks for the links, that site is very informative..
annaleigh_123@yahoo.com
I too have come to the conclusion that this will not be a plug and play swap. I now have 3 different parts of harnesses from 3 different vans. The first came from a 79. The second came from a 83. The third, I am not sure what year it is. At first they told me it was a 83 and then said it was a 86. I happened to be passing a junk yard today and saw the van there and stopped by.
All 3 have connector problems that will have to be fixed. The one I got today seemed promising till I got home. It unplugged from the main harness as the other two did not. This one has 2 square plugs and one round one coming from an upper harness and then the 2 round plugs that would go to the control module. My van has 2 round and one square coming off the main harness. Another problem i have with the harness I picked up today is that there must have been a short around the coil and some of the wires were burnt at the coil and distributor, but I have no shortage of connectors now to replace them or make any harness i need and then some.
I also have another problem. The van was starting just fine till I started moving wires around. Now it will turn over but will not start till I let go of the ignition switch and it goes to the run position.
So I am getting power to the starter solenoid but not to the ignition, or perhaps the ECM relay, while the key is in the start position.
So yes, i would love to see the diagrams you have. Franklin2 has been helping me too and gave me 3 different diagrams but i have not sorted out the color coding on the Tfi schematic and my van. I believe I am just going to have to start un taping the harness's and follow the wires back..
Thanks Anna
Oh and I already bought a reman distributor and have 2 blue grommet duraspark modules
I certainly could use the wiring diagrams... And thanks for the links, that site is very informative..
annaleigh_123@yahoo.com
I too have come to the conclusion that this will not be a plug and play swap. I now have 3 different parts of harnesses from 3 different vans. The first came from a 79. The second came from a 83. The third, I am not sure what year it is. At first they told me it was a 83 and then said it was a 86. I happened to be passing a junk yard today and saw the van there and stopped by.
All 3 have connector problems that will have to be fixed. The one I got today seemed promising till I got home. It unplugged from the main harness as the other two did not. This one has 2 square plugs and one round one coming from an upper harness and then the 2 round plugs that would go to the control module. My van has 2 round and one square coming off the main harness. Another problem i have with the harness I picked up today is that there must have been a short around the coil and some of the wires were burnt at the coil and distributor, but I have no shortage of connectors now to replace them or make any harness i need and then some.
I also have another problem. The van was starting just fine till I started moving wires around. Now it will turn over but will not start till I let go of the ignition switch and it goes to the run position.
So I am getting power to the starter solenoid but not to the ignition, or perhaps the ECM relay, while the key is in the start position.
So yes, i would love to see the diagrams you have. Franklin2 has been helping me too and gave me 3 different diagrams but i have not sorted out the color coding on the Tfi schematic and my van. I believe I am just going to have to start un taping the harness's and follow the wires back..
Thanks Anna
Oh and I already bought a reman distributor and have 2 blue grommet duraspark modules
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Comments to go with schematics
I emailed Anna some PDF schematics and got this reply…
Thank you for taking the time to help me out with this and thank you for the diagrams.
Nothing I have come across matches the wiring in my van. If you go to
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...aspark-ii.html
The first photo in your post and the photo I emailed you are of connector C226, the square 4 pin plug (black male half/ gray female plastic housing). Get a jewelers’ screw driver and depress the plastic spring tab inside the black half and remove the yellow wire from it. Note the Brown wire has faded and almost looks white
The Red/G wire should run into the Gray half of C226 run it to + coil terminal with the ’83 harness.
C226 W/R to oil press sender on engine
C226 R/W to water temp sender on engine
C226 run a GReen/Y wire from the DSII module to the black main side of the connector (where the yellow wire was) and a GR/Y wire from the engine side of gray connector C226 to the neg coil terminal. Add a Tach lead here too.
The round 4 pin connector next to it is C235
Blue to O2 sensor (if you want to power one to check the carb mixture)
R/BL runs to C224 White wire of the DSII ign module
BK/W runs to choke
W runs to C224 Red wire of the DSII ign module
White ALSO runs to + side of TFI coil, bypassing ballast resistor. 2 wires off one terminal
The other round plug is for the tail lights I think.
Haynes Manual schematics use same connector numbers, but only go up to 1983
you can see pics of the connectors that I come from the main harness and run down to the engine. Your diagram shows a red/blu stripe that runs to the starter relay. There is also a red/blue stripe wire in the harness running to the relay on my van.
The R/BL wire runs through C235, BUT the starter solenoid wire is part of the main truck harness, not part of the engine wire harness. When you unplug C235 the starter relay wire stays with the van.
There is also a red/blu stripe wire that is on one of the connectors coming from the harnes in the pics. There is 4 wires going into that connector and only 3 coming out going to the engine. the colors do not match.
Did you remove all the unused eec wiring?
YES. (After I changed my carb. I ran the smog carb with the DSII ign for a couple weeks.) Find the computer under the dash above the passenger footwell where the glove box would be in a car. Disconnect the harness and pull the 1” thick bundle thru the firewall under the heater into the engine compartment. Disconnect it at C235, C226 and everywhere else it plugs in.
TIP: use a utility knife to whittle the points off the plastic connector tabs. It helps keep the brittle 30 yr old plastic locking tabs on the other half of the connector from breaking off when you pull them apart. Spray w/ lube to loosen dirt up too.
to me it looks pretty integrated and I am not sure how much can be removed. On the truck forums they talk about removing it all. I have the engine cover off and believe maybe I should start unwrapping all the wiring going from the engine to the main harness connectors in order to trace them down.
-The only thing to learn by doing that is follow the white wire from the coil to C235 and follow the R/BLue wire from the connector on the tfi Dizzy to C235. Note where they match up on the Main Van side of the C235 plug, then yard them out onto the driveway.
I don’t think I will need any of the wires connected to the vacuum switches, EGR, oxygen sensor, or wires connected to the carb except the choke heater wire.
-TRUE, but the '83 harness has a choke wire too.
Zen thought: Don’t try to save the ’85 engine harness, REPLACE it with the repaired ’83 harness with the added 2nd white ballast bypass wire. You should have something that looks like my pencil sketch, but lengths change for your V8.
Btw C228 is the plug on the DSII Dizzy.
The ones i need to leave hooked up for now would be the ones the the coil and TFI module as I will need some of them. I believe one of the wite wires in the connectors is power in the run position and that the red with the blue stripe might be the start wire. i think i have to run a wire from the I terminal on the starter relay to the coil as the start bypass.
I will also need to buy a ballast resistor.
-NO! The harness has one in it already (1.1 OHM resistance wire). If you run the cube shape TFI coil, BYPASS the ballast resistor just like the factory did in '85. Run a White wire from C235 to the coil +. The TFI coil is way better than the old round ones!
Do you think i should pay All-Data and see if they have the exact EEC iv TFI feedback carb diagram for my van? If I had that it would make things allot simpler.
- I think it would be the same as the 6 cyl wiring I sent you. They sell subscriptions to mechanics, not sure if they sell pages onesy.
Does your van have a 4 speed trans in it?
YES! My old ’78 had a 351 and 4 spd OD. When it rusted away, I looked on Clist for 3 years to find another 4 spd van. Huge RPM jump between 2nd and 3rd tho. Opted to keep the 6 for gas mileage and near cult status.
i wish mine did and I saw a van at the junk yard that had a straight shift in it... but that would be allot of work for me... I am having some shifting problems with my OD trans but wanted to get the engine running right before I get back into that part of it.
I understand how to wire up the DS II, i just need to know what existing wires to feed it with.
Hope this helps.
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Thank you for taking the time to help me out with this and thank you for the diagrams.
Nothing I have come across matches the wiring in my van. If you go to
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...aspark-ii.html
The first photo in your post and the photo I emailed you are of connector C226, the square 4 pin plug (black male half/ gray female plastic housing). Get a jewelers’ screw driver and depress the plastic spring tab inside the black half and remove the yellow wire from it. Note the Brown wire has faded and almost looks white
The Red/G wire should run into the Gray half of C226 run it to + coil terminal with the ’83 harness.
C226 W/R to oil press sender on engine
C226 R/W to water temp sender on engine
C226 run a GReen/Y wire from the DSII module to the black main side of the connector (where the yellow wire was) and a GR/Y wire from the engine side of gray connector C226 to the neg coil terminal. Add a Tach lead here too.
The round 4 pin connector next to it is C235
Blue to O2 sensor (if you want to power one to check the carb mixture)
R/BL runs to C224 White wire of the DSII ign module
BK/W runs to choke
W runs to C224 Red wire of the DSII ign module
White ALSO runs to + side of TFI coil, bypassing ballast resistor. 2 wires off one terminal
The other round plug is for the tail lights I think.
Haynes Manual schematics use same connector numbers, but only go up to 1983
you can see pics of the connectors that I come from the main harness and run down to the engine. Your diagram shows a red/blu stripe that runs to the starter relay. There is also a red/blue stripe wire in the harness running to the relay on my van.
The R/BL wire runs through C235, BUT the starter solenoid wire is part of the main truck harness, not part of the engine wire harness. When you unplug C235 the starter relay wire stays with the van.
There is also a red/blu stripe wire that is on one of the connectors coming from the harnes in the pics. There is 4 wires going into that connector and only 3 coming out going to the engine. the colors do not match.
Did you remove all the unused eec wiring?
YES. (After I changed my carb. I ran the smog carb with the DSII ign for a couple weeks.) Find the computer under the dash above the passenger footwell where the glove box would be in a car. Disconnect the harness and pull the 1” thick bundle thru the firewall under the heater into the engine compartment. Disconnect it at C235, C226 and everywhere else it plugs in.
TIP: use a utility knife to whittle the points off the plastic connector tabs. It helps keep the brittle 30 yr old plastic locking tabs on the other half of the connector from breaking off when you pull them apart. Spray w/ lube to loosen dirt up too.
to me it looks pretty integrated and I am not sure how much can be removed. On the truck forums they talk about removing it all. I have the engine cover off and believe maybe I should start unwrapping all the wiring going from the engine to the main harness connectors in order to trace them down.
-The only thing to learn by doing that is follow the white wire from the coil to C235 and follow the R/BLue wire from the connector on the tfi Dizzy to C235. Note where they match up on the Main Van side of the C235 plug, then yard them out onto the driveway.
I don’t think I will need any of the wires connected to the vacuum switches, EGR, oxygen sensor, or wires connected to the carb except the choke heater wire.
-TRUE, but the '83 harness has a choke wire too.
Zen thought: Don’t try to save the ’85 engine harness, REPLACE it with the repaired ’83 harness with the added 2nd white ballast bypass wire. You should have something that looks like my pencil sketch, but lengths change for your V8.
Btw C228 is the plug on the DSII Dizzy.
The ones i need to leave hooked up for now would be the ones the the coil and TFI module as I will need some of them. I believe one of the wite wires in the connectors is power in the run position and that the red with the blue stripe might be the start wire. i think i have to run a wire from the I terminal on the starter relay to the coil as the start bypass.
I will also need to buy a ballast resistor.
-NO! The harness has one in it already (1.1 OHM resistance wire). If you run the cube shape TFI coil, BYPASS the ballast resistor just like the factory did in '85. Run a White wire from C235 to the coil +. The TFI coil is way better than the old round ones!
Do you think i should pay All-Data and see if they have the exact EEC iv TFI feedback carb diagram for my van? If I had that it would make things allot simpler.
- I think it would be the same as the 6 cyl wiring I sent you. They sell subscriptions to mechanics, not sure if they sell pages onesy.
Does your van have a 4 speed trans in it?
YES! My old ’78 had a 351 and 4 spd OD. When it rusted away, I looked on Clist for 3 years to find another 4 spd van. Huge RPM jump between 2nd and 3rd tho. Opted to keep the 6 for gas mileage and near cult status.
i wish mine did and I saw a van at the junk yard that had a straight shift in it... but that would be allot of work for me... I am having some shifting problems with my OD trans but wanted to get the engine running right before I get back into that part of it.
I understand how to wire up the DS II, i just need to know what existing wires to feed it with.
Hope this helps.
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Logistics Pro
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I had some time today to start tracing wires in the connectors. If need be you can refer to the link with the connector pics. I hope this posts ok..
All the connectors from the main harness are male.
All the connectors going to the engine are female.
I will describe the male connector wire colors and then the corresponding female connector colors.
Square Connector.
Male - yellow = empty - (no wire) female
Male - red/ white stripe = red/ white stripe - female
Male - red/ green stripe = brown - female
Male - white/ red stripe = white/ red stripe - female
#1 Round Connector.
Male - white = white -female
Male - white/ black stripe = white/ black stripe - female
Male - blue = empty - (no wire) - female
Male - red/ blue stripe = red - female
Note, the red/ blue stripe to the #1 round connector Is supplied from a short jumper wire that comes from the #2 round connector.
The male #2 round connector has 3 red/ blue stripe wires, they appear to be in one terminal on the connector. One comes from the firewall, one continues on to the starter relay, the other is the jumper to the #1 round connector. So the red/ blue stripe would be a start wire from the ignition switch.
The #2 round connector is for the neutral/park safety switch that inserts into the transmission.
All the connectors from the main harness are male.
All the connectors going to the engine are female.
I will describe the male connector wire colors and then the corresponding female connector colors.
Square Connector.
Male - yellow = empty - (no wire) female
Male - red/ white stripe = red/ white stripe - female
Male - red/ green stripe = brown - female
Male - white/ red stripe = white/ red stripe - female
#1 Round Connector.
Male - white = white -female
Male - white/ black stripe = white/ black stripe - female
Male - blue = empty - (no wire) - female
Male - red/ blue stripe = red - female
Note, the red/ blue stripe to the #1 round connector Is supplied from a short jumper wire that comes from the #2 round connector.
The male #2 round connector has 3 red/ blue stripe wires, they appear to be in one terminal on the connector. One comes from the firewall, one continues on to the starter relay, the other is the jumper to the #1 round connector. So the red/ blue stripe would be a start wire from the ignition switch.
The #2 round connector is for the neutral/park safety switch that inserts into the transmission.
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Square Connector. = C226
Male - yellow = empty - (no wire) female -remove the yellow & tape off. Run green/ Y wire from DS ign mod thru that space to the neg Coil. Scavange matching terminal ends
Male - red/ white stripe = red/ white stripe - female > water temp sender on engine
Male - red/ green stripe = brown - female > + coil (start)
Male - white/ red stripe = white/ red stripe - female > oil press sender on engine
#1 Round Connector. = C235
Male - white = white -female > to Red wire on C224 Ign Mod AND + coil (RUN at full 12V - bypass ballast wire)
Male - white/ black stripe = white/ black stripe - female > Choke
Male - blue = empty - (no wire) - female > smog, can use to heat O2
Male - red/ blue stripe = red - female> C224 White wire of the DSII ign module
Male - yellow = empty - (no wire) female -remove the yellow & tape off. Run green/ Y wire from DS ign mod thru that space to the neg Coil. Scavange matching terminal ends
Male - red/ white stripe = red/ white stripe - female > water temp sender on engine
Male - red/ green stripe = brown - female > + coil (start)
Male - white/ red stripe = white/ red stripe - female > oil press sender on engine
#1 Round Connector. = C235
Male - white = white -female > to Red wire on C224 Ign Mod AND + coil (RUN at full 12V - bypass ballast wire)
Male - white/ black stripe = white/ black stripe - female > Choke
Male - blue = empty - (no wire) - female > smog, can use to heat O2
Male - red/ blue stripe = red - female> C224 White wire of the DSII ign module
Last edited by Econo4spd; Mar 21, 2015 at 11:50 PM. Reason: add info
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As to the square connector..
The colors in the picture are not quite right, it may have been the lighting.
"The first photo in your post and the photo I emailed you are of connector C226, the square 4 pin plug (black male half/ gray female plastic housing). Get a jewelers’ screw driver and depress the plastic spring tab inside the black half and remove the yellow wire from it. Note the Brown wire has faded and almost looks white"
The male connector does not have a brown wire in it. I removed about 2 inches of tape from the main harness to expose the true colors. If you are referring to the white one in the male connector, it is white / red stripe.
From left to right on the square female connector the true colors are as follows:
Brown----- red/ white stripe ---- white/ red stripe...
C226 R/W to water temp sender on engine
Most of the drawings with TFI show the water temp sender to have 2 wires going to it but you are correct here. mine only has one. I disconnected it and installed a mechanical temp gauge to double check as my dash gauge was showing the engine to be overheating.
This brings up another question while I am working with the temp and oil senders.
Someone had pulled the dash out before I bought the van and broke part of the housing so that it is floating in the dash. They also messed up one of the strips on the circuit board where the connector plugs in. Mine curreently has a light for the alternator and oil pressure. I acquired another instrument cluster from an 1983 van that has gauges instead of lights. Do you think 83 will work in the 85? I know I would have to change the oil sender unit but not sure about the voltage gauge.
But that could be for a later discussion... After we get the durospark working...
Which wire is the ballast resistor? Would that be the red/ green stripe on the male end of the square connector which turns to brown on the female connector?
Thank you very much.
Anna
The colors in the picture are not quite right, it may have been the lighting.
"The first photo in your post and the photo I emailed you are of connector C226, the square 4 pin plug (black male half/ gray female plastic housing). Get a jewelers’ screw driver and depress the plastic spring tab inside the black half and remove the yellow wire from it. Note the Brown wire has faded and almost looks white"
The male connector does not have a brown wire in it. I removed about 2 inches of tape from the main harness to expose the true colors. If you are referring to the white one in the male connector, it is white / red stripe.
From left to right on the square female connector the true colors are as follows:
Brown----- red/ white stripe ---- white/ red stripe...
C226 R/W to water temp sender on engine
Most of the drawings with TFI show the water temp sender to have 2 wires going to it but you are correct here. mine only has one. I disconnected it and installed a mechanical temp gauge to double check as my dash gauge was showing the engine to be overheating.
This brings up another question while I am working with the temp and oil senders.
Someone had pulled the dash out before I bought the van and broke part of the housing so that it is floating in the dash. They also messed up one of the strips on the circuit board where the connector plugs in. Mine curreently has a light for the alternator and oil pressure. I acquired another instrument cluster from an 1983 van that has gauges instead of lights. Do you think 83 will work in the 85? I know I would have to change the oil sender unit but not sure about the voltage gauge.
But that could be for a later discussion... After we get the durospark working...
Which wire is the ballast resistor? Would that be the red/ green stripe on the male end of the square connector which turns to brown on the female connector?
Thank you very much.
Anna
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Thanks for the fast reply,, you are ahead of meas you replied while I was writing my last post....
Male - blue = empty - (no wire) - female > smog, can use to heat O2
My 02 is a single wire so I don't think it is a heated 02 sensor. My plan was to remove the 02 sensor. I just replaced the right exhaust manifold which the 02 sensor screw into. I replaced the 02 sensor with the same type that came out. The new manifold had a plug installed in the hole for the 02 sensor and I saved it.
I will be getting a new/rebuilt carb in about 3 weeks and replacing the feedback carb.
Should I leave the 02 sensor and all the vacuum switches hooked up until I change the carb or will the feedback carb run with all the emissions disconnected?
Male - blue = empty - (no wire) - female > smog, can use to heat O2
My 02 is a single wire so I don't think it is a heated 02 sensor. My plan was to remove the 02 sensor. I just replaced the right exhaust manifold which the 02 sensor screw into. I replaced the 02 sensor with the same type that came out. The new manifold had a plug installed in the hole for the 02 sensor and I saved it.
I will be getting a new/rebuilt carb in about 3 weeks and replacing the feedback carb.
Should I leave the 02 sensor and all the vacuum switches hooked up until I change the carb or will the feedback carb run with all the emissions disconnected?
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Which wire is the ballast resistor? Would that be the red/ green stripe on the male end of the square connector which turns to brown on the female connector?
Yes, look on either 83 or 85 schemaitc. It's the zig zag wire coming off the middle ignition switch terminal. Then IGNORE it. On the '85 schematic it shows a R/Y wire also coming off the center Ign Switch terminal. At node S103 it turns left and changes color to white. At C235 (our friendly round connector) it continues to the + coil terminal (which bypasses the ballast resistor) and the white wire Also runs off towards the dizzy, but you're going to run that one to the DS-II ign mod Red wire.
The cube shape TFI coil runs at 12V all the time.
The old rounnd coils only ran at 12V during Start (brown wire on the RH Ignition switch terminal) and 6V during RUN, the ballast resistor cut the voltage. That's why the ballast is bypassed on the '85.
Oh, gauges are better than idiot lights. The '83 cluster should plug right onto the '85 harness connector and work with all the stock '85 sender units.
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Again thank you so very much...
I have to get to sleep now but your information has helped me out so much in sorting this out. Due to the fact that I had not ran across a wiring diagram that matched my system, I have spent quite a bit of time looking at diagrams and they all start to run together... Now that I had time to trace some of the wiring out on the van, and the fact that I have looked at the diagrams you sent me several times a day since you sent them to me, I don't feel so lost..
I think my next step should be to clean up the 3 harnesses I have and asses which one and what parts I need. They are all three different. The harness I think that will match closest has burnt wires right around where the coil and distributor connectors are. It looked to me like there was a fire around the coil as the C connector was partially melted. One of the other harnesses has those connectors on it.
I am thinking that the best way to splice them would be to slide heat shrink tubing over the wires, solder them together, shrink the tubing over the solder joints, then re-tape the harness.
In the mean time while working on the harnesses, I will continue to study the drawings you sent me..
I am just a little slow sometimes but I think it is starting to come together!
I have to get to sleep now but your information has helped me out so much in sorting this out. Due to the fact that I had not ran across a wiring diagram that matched my system, I have spent quite a bit of time looking at diagrams and they all start to run together... Now that I had time to trace some of the wiring out on the van, and the fact that I have looked at the diagrams you sent me several times a day since you sent them to me, I don't feel so lost..
I think my next step should be to clean up the 3 harnesses I have and asses which one and what parts I need. They are all three different. The harness I think that will match closest has burnt wires right around where the coil and distributor connectors are. It looked to me like there was a fire around the coil as the C connector was partially melted. One of the other harnesses has those connectors on it.
I am thinking that the best way to splice them would be to slide heat shrink tubing over the wires, solder them together, shrink the tubing over the solder joints, then re-tape the harness.
In the mean time while working on the harnesses, I will continue to study the drawings you sent me..
I am just a little slow sometimes but I think it is starting to come together!
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Should I leave the 02 sensor and all the vacuum switches hooked up until I change the carb or will the feedback carb run with all the emissions disconnected?
The O2 & computer should still adjust the carb mixture. I think it will run really rich if you pull the harness before swaping carbs.
If you run the DSII with the old carb, then you need to do TEMPorary wiring:
Red & White at ign mod C224 are run to the old distributor connector, where you can pick up the R/Blue and W wires. And remember, don't hook white to white on the Ign module.
I am thinking that the best way to splice them would be to slide heat shrink tubing over the wires, solder them together, shrink the tubing over the solder joints, then re-tape the harness.
Yes, and better to scavange as much intact wire as possible from each harness and have the fewest splices. Even if you have to use different color wires, as long as you keep good notes for future fixin'
Took me awhile to figure mine out.
Don't solder anything unless you're just doing the 2 - 4" at the end to replace a terminal. I tested mine with wire nut splices to make sure I had everything right and figured where to route the harness and how long to make the wires.
Have fun!
The O2 & computer should still adjust the carb mixture. I think it will run really rich if you pull the harness before swaping carbs.
If you run the DSII with the old carb, then you need to do TEMPorary wiring:
Red & White at ign mod C224 are run to the old distributor connector, where you can pick up the R/Blue and W wires. And remember, don't hook white to white on the Ign module.
I am thinking that the best way to splice them would be to slide heat shrink tubing over the wires, solder them together, shrink the tubing over the solder joints, then re-tape the harness.
Yes, and better to scavange as much intact wire as possible from each harness and have the fewest splices. Even if you have to use different color wires, as long as you keep good notes for future fixin'
Took me awhile to figure mine out.
Don't solder anything unless you're just doing the 2 - 4" at the end to replace a terminal. I tested mine with wire nut splices to make sure I had everything right and figured where to route the harness and how long to make the wires.
Have fun!