Hard Start Cold, No Start Hot

Reply Subscribe

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

Feb 11, 2015 | 01:26 PM

majorgator

Thread Starter

Senior User

Joined: Feb 2015

Posts: 121

Likes: 1

Hard Start Cold, No Start Hot

Actually had time today to run the truck and pull some good diagnostic data. The case is that it will crank and start after long cranking sequence while cold. It WILL NOT start again until truck has reached complete cool down (early morning then mid afternoon, or after sitting overnight). It WILL NOT start when hot.

Therefore, this is a “hard start when cold, no start when hot” scenario.

Cold Starting
KOEO: EBP = 15.6
Buzz Test sounded good

KEOR (Averages over approx. 1.5 minutes):
EBP = 15.5 PSI
Barom Pres = 4.6 V
ICP = 723 PSI / 1.9 V / 18.79 % (DC)
MAP = 14.6 PSI
Fuel Injector Pulse Width = 0.13 ms
CCT (initiated @ 172 deg) = system pass

Hot (Warm) Starting (approx. 20 minutes later)
KOEO: EBP =15.6

Cranking:
EBP = 15.9
ICP = 180 PSI / 0.24 V / 14.8 % (DC)
ICP (after cranking for 5 seconds) = 1591 PSI up to 2462 PSI / 0.42 V / 27.7 % up to 36.3 % (DC)
Fuel Injector Pulse Width = 0.21 ms up to 0.4 ms

Overall, is this data raise any red flags to anyone? My initial guess is that its an IPR problem based upon the data. It does appear that my EBPV is hung open, though I never really had a chance to get it up to full operating temp.

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w

oNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

ontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:EnableOpenTypeKerning/> <w

ontFlipMirrorIndents/> <w:OverrideTableStyleHps/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority

9; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]-->

Feb 11, 2015 | 01:31 PM

fordman67

Hotshot

Joined: Dec 2005

Posts: 14,376

Likes: 605

From: evansville in

The 180 psi hot start wont run.500psi minimum check ipr tin nut, ipr orings, icp connector for oil weeping out.

Go from there.
Have you checked the glow plugs for the cold hard start?
It may be two different issues.

Feb 11, 2015 | 01:33 PM

fordman67

Hotshot

Joined: Dec 2005

Posts: 14,376

Likes: 605

From: evansville in

Also, system voltage while cranking has to be above 10.5 volts..has to be, or idm can not fire the injectors.

Feb 11, 2015 | 01:35 PM

majorgator

Thread Starter

Senior User

Joined: Feb 2015

Posts: 121

Likes: 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordman67

I have replaced the GPR and tested the glow plugs. I believe that 1 glow plug is non-functioning. Visually, the ICP is fine. I believe its an issue with the IPR, so if the overall feedback on here concurs with that, then I'll disassemble the fuel bowl components and check it out. I am very curious as to why the ICP jumped up so much after 5 seconds or so of cranking.

Feb 11, 2015 | 01:36 PM

majorgator

Thread Starter

Senior User

Joined: Feb 2015

Posts: 121

Likes: 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordman67

Also, system voltage while cranking has to be above 10.5 volts..has to be, or idm can not fire the injectors.

System voltage is not a problem in this case.

Feb 11, 2015 | 03:59 PM

madpogue

Lead Driver

Joined: Oct 2003

Posts: 8,476

Likes: 37

From: Madison, WI

I would be checking EOT both cold and hot.

How old is the oil, and how's the level?

Feb 11, 2015 | 04:22 PM

majorgator

Thread Starter

Senior User

Joined: Feb 2015

Posts: 121

Likes: 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by madpogue

I would be checking EOT both cold and hot.

How old is the oil, and how's the level?

I'm having a moment, so EOT means...??
Oil is less than 2K old and level is just fine.

10 Ugly Ford Trucks That We Still Kinda Love

Joe Kucinski

10 Things Every Truck Owner NEEDS (2026 Edition)

Michael S. Palmer

Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath

Verdad Gallardo

Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer

Joe Kucinski

2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)

Brett Foote

Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies

Joe Kucinski

AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make

Brett Foote

Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!

Michael S. Palmer

Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home

Verdad Gallardo

10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!

Joe Kucinski

Feb 11, 2015 | 04:41 PM

majorgator

Thread Starter

Senior User

Joined: Feb 2015

Posts: 121

Likes: 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by madpogue

Engine Oil Temperature.

That's what I thought. After running for about 15-20 minutes, with on/off high idle, I was around 170 degrees. Didn't go past that because I just wanted to get to that point in order to do the CCT.

Feb 12, 2015 | 09:45 AM

#10

Hussler

Postmaster

Joined: Sep 2007

Posts: 4,195

Likes: 6

From: Medford Oregon

Hot (Warm) Starting (approx. 20 minutes later)
KOEO: EBP =15.6

Cranking:
EBP = 15.9
ICP = 180 PSI / 0.24 V / 14.8 % (DC)
ICP (after cranking for 5 seconds) = 1591 PSI up to 2462 PSI / 0.42 V / 27.7 % up to 36.3 % (DC)
Fuel Injector Pulse Width = 0.21 ms up to 0.4 ms

The reported PSI is what the PCM is requesting, not what the ICP is reporting. The ICP is reporting 0.42 volts which is well below the required 500 PSI required to start, which should be above 1.0 volts.

Feb 12, 2015 | 10:30 AM

#11

majorgator

Thread Starter

Senior User

Joined: Feb 2015

Posts: 121

Likes: 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hussler

The reported PSI is what the PCM is requesting, not what the ICP is reporting. The ICP is reporting 0.42 volts which is well below the required 500 PSI required to start, which should be above 1.0 volts.

So in short, what are you trying to say?

Feb 12, 2015 | 10:40 AM

#12

MOOSE_MACHINE

Postmaster

Joined: Mar 2004

Posts: 3,897

Likes: 9

What he's saying is the problem lies within the icp sensor, the ipr, or the wiring. I think

Feb 12, 2015 | 11:56 AM

#13

majorgator

Thread Starter

Senior User

Joined: Feb 2015

Posts: 121

Likes: 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOOSE_MACHINE

What he's saying is the problem lies within the icp sensor, the ipr, or the wiring. I think

I can attest that disconnecting the ICP does nothing for the truck, either running cranking. I have not, however, checked the ICP reading with A/E while disconnected AND cranking.

Otherwise, I still don't quite understand the post from Hussler. I know that the ICP requires 500 PSI to start, but the way the post is written confuses me.

Feb 12, 2015 | 12:38 PM

#14

MOOSE_MACHINE

Postmaster

Joined: Mar 2004

Posts: 3,897

Likes: 9

Hopefully he will elaborate on what he is saying. I think what he means is the PCM wants the high pressure that shows in your post but the sensor is either not seeing it, not reporting it, or the signal is not getting to the PCM.

Feb 12, 2015 | 01:13 PM

#15

majorgator

Thread Starter

Senior User

Joined: Feb 2015

Posts: 121

Likes: 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOOSE_MACHINE

One of the diagnostic guides I have states that if the PCM isn't getting a signal, then the ICP reading will default to 725 PSI at idle. My actual ICP signals bounced around between 716 and 732 PSI (lower end was after the truck had been running, upper end was closer to the beginning of running). If I recall correctly, the ICP was running between 550 and 580 PSI right before I shut down. This leads me to believe that the ICP is healthy.

As a further note, I have pulled the P1298 (IDM Failure) code when performing the KOEO and Buzz tests. However, when the truck DOES run, it runs great. I've understood that the IDM either works or doesn't, so if the truck runs, then its not a problem. I can't confirm if this is true or not...

I'm still leaning toward the IPR, but since it'll be at least another day before I can turn any wrenches on the truck, I might as well keep gathering info and pontificating the matter.

Reply Share

First
Prev
1 / 3
Next
Last

Forum Jump

Hard Start Cold, No Start Hot

Hard Start Cold, No Start Hot

Trending Topics

10 Ugly Ford Trucks That We Still Kinda Love

10 Things Every Truck Owner NEEDS (2026 Edition)

Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath

Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer

2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)

Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies

AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make

Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!

Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home

10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!