home blowers
#46
07-25-2003, 12:54 AM
home blowers
Originally posted by mustange70
Torque1st, do you know (or anyone) that makes a system for superchargers that enables you to turn them on and off? Cause all it would take is either a magnetic clutch setup (farm machicery uses this type of cutch and it is a very very adaptble system) or a mini version of a clutch like whats in a manual tranny. spmeone tell me if this has been done cause i'm looking for a science project.
Well they had it in Mad Max movies -hehe
Your AC compressor uses a mag clutch. A clutch would have to be rated for the power transmitted.
I described a "backwards" waste gate setup in a post above.
Oh and the thing bout turbos and their efficienciey. Turbos per pound (actuall weight) per psi of boost make more power and are more effiecient due to the fact that they use the "wasted power" (as in the heat) of the engine then belt driven supercharges of any kind.
I am not sure that a few pounds more or less makes much of a difference in a non racing application.
Now turbos cause less of a parasitic drain on the motor (because of the increased in back pressure but this loss is less then that of a supercharger)
Power is power, it has to come from somewhere. The power drain is less with a exhaust driven unit than a belt because the crank is p-poor at converting expanding gas into rotary motion.
because of a turbo's design you do not have to run mufflers on a turbo equiped vehicle and still be legal (i looooove that turbo wine)
My son runs a 2.6L Intercooled turbo with a 3" exhaust and a muffler. I don't think he would be legal without the muffler. It rumbles enough to shake the house windows as it is.
Torque1st, do you know (or anyone) that makes a system for superchargers that enables you to turn them on and off? Cause all it would take is either a magnetic clutch setup (farm machicery uses this type of cutch and it is a very very adaptble system) or a mini version of a clutch like whats in a manual tranny. spmeone tell me if this has been done cause i'm looking for a science project.
Well they had it in Mad Max movies -hehe
Your AC compressor uses a mag clutch. A clutch would have to be rated for the power transmitted.
I described a "backwards" waste gate setup in a post above.
Oh and the thing bout turbos and their efficienciey. Turbos per pound (actuall weight) per psi of boost make more power and are more effiecient due to the fact that they use the "wasted power" (as in the heat) of the engine then belt driven supercharges of any kind.
I am not sure that a few pounds more or less makes much of a difference in a non racing application.
Now turbos cause less of a parasitic drain on the motor (because of the increased in back pressure but this loss is less then that of a supercharger)
Power is power, it has to come from somewhere. The power drain is less with a exhaust driven unit than a belt because the crank is p-poor at converting expanding gas into rotary motion.
because of a turbo's design you do not have to run mufflers on a turbo equiped vehicle and still be legal (i looooove that turbo wine)
My son runs a 2.6L Intercooled turbo with a 3" exhaust and a muffler. I don't think he would be legal without the muffler. It rumbles enough to shake the house windows as it is.
Take a look at the universal kits available from that aussie site. They had blow thru kits for a carb as well as suck thru kits which apparently gain some efficiency because the fuel evaporation cools the intake mix like an intercooler.
#47
07-25-2003, 07:42 AM
home blowers
Originally posted by fishin1976
Two things,
Turbos are very efficient. Turbos require no engine power, and only restrict the exhaust a little bit. (which is easily overcome by the increase in HP and torque) Turbos compress the the incoming air, providing boost. The exhaust side spins faster and faster (which inturn spins the compressor faster and faster) because of the rapidly expanding compression ignited fuel/ air mixture. (more air out, turbo spins faster, forces more air in, even more air out, turbospins even faster, forces even more air in, etc....) I know that you have to keep adding fuel to keep this cycle going. This is the way a turbo works, no engine power is tranfered to the turbo, only byproducts of combustion. (heat, pressure and volume of exhaust gases) Turbo lag means that the volume and pressure of the exhaust is less than what is nessary to create boost. Otherwords, you have to reach a certain volume of exhaust (by way of increased load on the engine (more fuel) or RPM (pumping faster).
If you watch drag racing ( bracket style), The turbo cars must use a trans break to accomplish two things, bring rpms up to stall speed( for the TC) and load the engine to create maximum boost from the turbos. For a performance car, the least amount of turbo lag, the better. Also belt driven turbos are not as efficient, but they are linear system (more rpms = more boost). An exhaust turbo is dynamic, they can make boost at almost anywhere in the rpm range.
For a truck, an exhaust turbo is the way to go.
There are very little centrifigual forces on the fan blades in a turbo. The fan and compressor blades are make of thin lightwieght materials. I have seen some that are ceramic and only 1/64 of an inch thick. The blades on a turbo are very delicate. Very very small particles of dust and debris can crack and or destroy the fan blades. The blades on the compressor side extend into the housing to compress the incoming air, you only see a small portion of the blade from the outside. the exhaust fan (turbine) is small, for a reason. Try blowing (with your mouth) into a big box fan, you may be able to turn the blades one rotation. Do the same thing to a small desk fan. You will more that likly get it going pretty good. The smaller fan will turn more quicly because you can provide enough voulme and pressure. Same with turbo, Volume gives the fan power and the pressure turns it faster. Any of you with turbo diesel dumptruck, try this, put the truck in nuetral, rev the engine to 2200 rpms. Do you hear the turbo? if you, should be just barely. Now set the parking brake, put it in gear and rev to 1000 rpm. Otherwords, put a load on the engine with out moving anywhere. You should hear the turbo screaming. You may want to open the hood when you do this, since alot of the newer trucks have alot of sound deadening material in the cab and hood.
This clearly demonstrates the relationship between volume and pressure. You would have about the same amount of pressure at 2200 rpm unloaded as you do at 1000 rpm, but the difference in volume is HUGE. So the turbo spins with more power, creating boost.
Enough of TURBO 101,
any questions?
I worked as a hot test engine speciallist for Caterpillar for 2 1/2 years testing 14.6L 3406 inline 6 cyl. turbocharged diesels. Some up to 600 HP. I received alot of training on the subject of turbos.
I am now a Mainframe computer programmer for the same company.
Two things,
Turbos are very efficient. Turbos require no engine power, and only restrict the exhaust a little bit. (which is easily overcome by the increase in HP and torque) Turbos compress the the incoming air, providing boost. The exhaust side spins faster and faster (which inturn spins the compressor faster and faster) because of the rapidly expanding compression ignited fuel/ air mixture. (more air out, turbo spins faster, forces more air in, even more air out, turbospins even faster, forces even more air in, etc....) I know that you have to keep adding fuel to keep this cycle going. This is the way a turbo works, no engine power is tranfered to the turbo, only byproducts of combustion. (heat, pressure and volume of exhaust gases) Turbo lag means that the volume and pressure of the exhaust is less than what is nessary to create boost. Otherwords, you have to reach a certain volume of exhaust (by way of increased load on the engine (more fuel) or RPM (pumping faster).
If you watch drag racing ( bracket style), The turbo cars must use a trans break to accomplish two things, bring rpms up to stall speed( for the TC) and load the engine to create maximum boost from the turbos. For a performance car, the least amount of turbo lag, the better. Also belt driven turbos are not as efficient, but they are linear system (more rpms = more boost). An exhaust turbo is dynamic, they can make boost at almost anywhere in the rpm range.
For a truck, an exhaust turbo is the way to go.
There are very little centrifigual forces on the fan blades in a turbo. The fan and compressor blades are make of thin lightwieght materials. I have seen some that are ceramic and only 1/64 of an inch thick. The blades on a turbo are very delicate. Very very small particles of dust and debris can crack and or destroy the fan blades. The blades on the compressor side extend into the housing to compress the incoming air, you only see a small portion of the blade from the outside. the exhaust fan (turbine) is small, for a reason. Try blowing (with your mouth) into a big box fan, you may be able to turn the blades one rotation. Do the same thing to a small desk fan. You will more that likly get it going pretty good. The smaller fan will turn more quicly because you can provide enough voulme and pressure. Same with turbo, Volume gives the fan power and the pressure turns it faster. Any of you with turbo diesel dumptruck, try this, put the truck in nuetral, rev the engine to 2200 rpms. Do you hear the turbo? if you, should be just barely. Now set the parking brake, put it in gear and rev to 1000 rpm. Otherwords, put a load on the engine with out moving anywhere. You should hear the turbo screaming. You may want to open the hood when you do this, since alot of the newer trucks have alot of sound deadening material in the cab and hood.
This clearly demonstrates the relationship between volume and pressure. You would have about the same amount of pressure at 2200 rpm unloaded as you do at 1000 rpm, but the difference in volume is HUGE. So the turbo spins with more power, creating boost.
Enough of TURBO 101,
any questions?
I worked as a hot test engine speciallist for Caterpillar for 2 1/2 years testing 14.6L 3406 inline 6 cyl. turbocharged diesels. Some up to 600 HP. I received alot of training on the subject of turbos.
I am now a Mainframe computer programmer for the same company.
The furnace blower issue has been kicked around already and determined that it will not make boost, the air will just simply go around the fan and find another exit, not pressurize it.
Read my previous reply above.
Super chargers are efficeint except for the fact that they have to be larger to be able to push a larger amount of air per rotation because they spin slower than a turbo.
On the exhuast restricition, why do you think diesels run 4,5,6 inch exhaust? And yes diesels run mufflers too, look at the stacks on a semi, they have a muffler usually right next to the cab on the uprights. It is usually very slender and long instead of what we are used to seeing.
#48
07-25-2003, 07:53 AM
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Turbos also create titanic amounts of exhaust heat. The fact that the exhaust gasses are used to spin a turbine creates a slight pressure, and by the ideal gas law, generates more heat. My friend has an RX-7 with the rotary engine, which already creates more exhaust heat than a V8. Then incorporate a turbo, and its easy to see how exhaust temperatures are so high in those cars that they need mufflers that are designed to handle it. I can't remember exactly how hot they got, but I know that the turbo RX-7s will destroy exhaust parts like few other cars can.
Matt, I absolutely promise you that no leaf blower or any other commercial blower (non-positive displacement type) will provide boost that will make a difference in power.
Matt, I absolutely promise you that no leaf blower or any other commercial blower (non-positive displacement type) will provide boost that will make a difference in power.
#49
07-25-2003, 08:10 AM
home blowers
If you were to feed enough room temperature in the turbine side of a turbo to create boost, air coming out would be maybe a few degrees warmer. The compressor side is a different story. The compressor will warm the air dramatically, becuase of the compression of the air, (same principle as a diesel uses compression to heat the fuel/air mix to the flashpoint very quickly, except that the turbo cannot compress air to anywhere near the flash point. But it does make the air warmer). Most turbo cars have an intercooler because even though your sucking fresh cool air, the compressor heats its up.
The exhaust side of the turbo gets hot because of the engine exhaust, not because the friction of the air going through it.
When you have to add alot of fuel to support a turbo, exhaust temps will rise very fast and get very very hot.
The exhaust side of the turbo gets hot because of the engine exhaust, not because the friction of the air going through it.
When you have to add alot of fuel to support a turbo, exhaust temps will rise very fast and get very very hot.
#50
07-26-2003, 11:20 PM
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#51
07-27-2003, 10:28 PM
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#54
07-28-2003, 09:43 AM
home blowers
I can't figure out why you guys would want to turn off the blower?? When you have a SC, or turbo on your engine, the engine doesn't get boost all the time. Only when you really open it up does it make boost. I can drive 100 mph in my L and it's pulling a vacuum. I don't see any advantage to uncoupling it. If the SC isn't making boost, then it only takes a couple of hp to turn it. Of course if it is making boost it takes a lot more hp to turn it, but you get an exponential return out of your motor.
JJ
JJ
#55
07-29-2003, 12:49 AM
home blowers
It would just put one more thing under your lead foot to keep your engine from sucking fuel. You wouldn't have to baby it as much to keep it out of boost. You could also adjust your setup to give more boost at lower engine rpm's, something you would not want to do for daily driving.
Brian, did you try it when bypassing the supercharger with a tube or duct? You might also need to adjust either the carb idle mixture or the EFI fuel map to show a benefit also. You could also use a manometer to measure the pressure differential across the compressor.
Brian, did you try it when bypassing the supercharger with a tube or duct? You might also need to adjust either the carb idle mixture or the EFI fuel map to show a benefit also. You could also use a manometer to measure the pressure differential across the compressor.
#56
07-29-2003, 03:53 AM
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http://www.electricsupercharger.com/
These guys claim to gain 5% hp with an electric supercharger and 1 psi of boost. I am a bit skeptical, but it is something to think about.
These guys claim to gain 5% hp with an electric supercharger and 1 psi of boost. I am a bit skeptical, but it is something to think about.
#57
07-29-2003, 06:20 AM
home blowers
You don't have to baby it to keep it out of the boost. I guess I still don't understand why this is ability to turn off the SC is so desireable. My dad has a regular cab short bed 5.4 with 3.55's and I get nearly the same mileage as he does. The only difference is likely due to the 3.73 gears I have as well as my lower compression. And believe me, I don't baby it.
JJ
JJ
#59
08-28-2003, 01:54 PM
home blowers
I think maybe you fellow should look at this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33741
If it were true everyone would have one, Hell for that price I would maybe even get two.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33741
If it were true everyone would have one, Hell for that price I would maybe even get two.