Is the soot on the tip normal? Stock remans with 4000 miles. 2-8 left to right. Right bank looks the same. Perdels on 2 and 8 were 1.4-2.5. The rest were 0. Passes CCT every time. I can feel the shudder between 800-1400 rpm. Copper washers are really on there. Is that normal?

 

As a matter of fact the do look quite clean.

Looks all good as long as you didn't remove them with that saw...

 

Don't see any copper washers, who's remans?

 

The soot is normal, and it's much worse in the winter.


While the PERDEL of 2.5 is slightly elevated, if that's #8 - that can be explained by the form of CPS you have. If it's a true 2.5, that is a mild imbalance and you may feel it or not. Most scan tools can't see PERDELs once the RPMs go above idle, so I have to ask if the high PERDEL synchronizes with the rough spot on the tach. You may possibly have nothing going on with the injectors.


Did you have injector knock on any one stick? Did you check the torque on the hold-down bolts before pulling the sticks - to see if they had loosened? Are you chipped? It's harder to write a tune with a good idle than it is to make more power at WOT.


As I understand it, remans are flow-balanced at WOT - throwing idle and cruise into the wild. I had my remans flow-balanced to my tuned idle specs and cruise specs, then asked him to ignore WOT. My remans flopped and flopped, so I yanked them all with about 5000 miles on them and upgraded to shiny new, with the same flow-balance specs. Out of all my fails with Stinky, this one put everything back on the path to recovery. New injectors have a different sound and feel.

 

Thanks for the replies. The perdels were checked with AE at idle. They all have copper washers. I don't run a tune so the WOT balance may be the direction. Truck runs great 1500 rpm to WOT. I didn't hear any injector knock. They were torqued to spec then run 400 miles then re-torqued. I checked the torque again when I started noticing the shudder in low RPM and they were all good.

My CPS does need replaced because I got the random jerk driving the other day. So maybe a combination of a CPS going and not being balanced in that rpm range.

I was sending all 8 back to get checked but am hesitant that it is a waste of time and should just go with it. Tugly, I have read your injector ordeal and am starting to be of your opinion. Might just put these back in and start saving for new.

 

Random jerk, eh? The only jerking I've ever experienced was with slight acceleration or giving more throttle to maintain speed up a mild grade. When I experienced that, it was always an O-ring or loose injector issue.

I'm sorry you're going through this - I know how disheartening it can be when you spend the money for an improvement, and it doesn't deliver as advertised. There's still hope with that inexpensive CPS swap.

 

All that is perfectly normal, and I don't see anything wrong in the pic either. 'Cept that saw blade, I did a double take on that too!

Tell us more about the shudder. For example, given the RPM range, if you notice it when pulling off from a stop, that would be more like a lack of grease (or the wrong kind) on the slip joint in the drive line. If it's a stick, does it shudder at that RPM in every gear?

 

I am going through the injector problems, myself, but leading up to it I had a shudder when starting till about 12k- 15k also, I greased the slip joint, not it, I read a post on here that from someone that chased a shudder also, he tracked it to a warped rear rotor, I changed the rear rotors out, one was warped, changed the mid ship bearing, and no more shudder, thanks FTE
hope this is of some help.

 

Shudder may have been a bad word to use. More like a miss but not real bad. It starts around 1100 rpm up to about 1400. If you hold it in that rpm range it will start smoking and smells of unburnt fuel. At first I thought it was burning oil but have since ruled that out. I have a 1 mile section on my way to work where the speed limit is 20 which keeps the rpms in that range and it puts out quite a bit of smoke. Not bellowing but definetly not clean burning. The smoking didn't start until the injectors had been in about 2500 miles. Under all other rpm ranges there is no smoke.

I don't know if it smokes at highway speed if I let the rpm drop down to 1100. I have tried to check but either the smoke is mixing with surrounding air too fast or ram air at 70 is enough to burn whatever extra fuel is getting dumped in.

Tugly to me it was a jerk but more of the engine cutting out and back in in a split second. I read several posts associating this with the CPS. It has only done it twice. I have a new CPS on the way from RiffRaff. And new orings. I'm just going to put them back in and save for NEW injectors. If these give me a year I'll call it a learning expierence and move on.

 

It sounds like you have a plan. I'm hoping the O-rings and fresh injector torque resolve that smoking/chugging thing.

 

When injectors are removed and reinstalled, should the copper washers be replaced? I was wondering with my little brain if the copper hardens a little after the first installation and torquing and then becomes too brittle to respond to the specified torque.

 

It doesn't get brittle, but the pliable ridge on the washer is "formed" to the mating surface of the cup. Once the the injector torque gets below a certain point, that seal is compromised, and you can't reliably get it back without a new washer. For those who have to pull very new injectors, I say replace the whole O-ring kit. For those stuck with limited choices, the seal on the copper washer is the most critical - it prevents damaging combustion gasses from reaching sensitive components.

 

I'm going to continue this thread in hopes of learning something even if not finding out my exact problem. I put the injectors back in after concluding that I was just going to save for new ones and the truck wasn't running bad enough to deal with the back and forth of trouble shooting injectors with the company.

#2 which had a perdel between 1.4 and 2 was put in #1 hole. The perdel followed the injector but now it is varying between 0 and 0.7. So an improvement I guess.

#8 which is a LL I left in #8 hole. It went from varying up to 2.5 to now varying between 5 and 6.5.

I changed the CPS to a dark gray one from RiffRaff during the re-install. Could that be affecting the perdel on #8? The truck idles noticeably quieter with the new CPS and overall seems to run better. It still has a rich fuel smoke between 1000-1400 rpm but is probably half as much as before. #8 also fails a CCT now which it never did before.

Would dropping a new stick in #8 be advisable? Or is it better to get what I can out of these and then go all new?

Like I said I'm just trying to learn here. I don't think there is any miracle cure with what I'm dealing with. Just counting my blessings that it's not any worse and the truck is drivable.

 

The new injector O-rings likely did most of the improvement, but since you did injectors and CPS at the same time, it's impossible to tell for sure. You won't know how the truck runs until you've run all the air out of the system. Have you driven at least 50 miles yet, with a few spirited accelerations?

 

I have driven about 70 miles and have made sure to get the RPMs up. What's the theory on #8 perdel doubling just by taking it out and putting it back in? Was it getting balanced by #2 and now that I moved that injector to the other side #8 is showing it's weakness? The UVCH ohm'd alright but could it be contributing somehow?

I'm starting to miss the 12V 5.9. Had 3 of those in the past with never anything resembling an injector issue. Guess it is why Ford went away from the HEUI also.