Hard Cold Start with AE Logs
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Joined: Apr 2007
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From: YYC
Hard Cold Start with AE Logs
Truck Quick Specs
97 350 E40D, Rosewood DIY 160s,BD2 Turbo,Western Plow GPR,TS6POS,EBPV Gut/Del,99 Intercooler,FPR Mod,etc
Well i have been fighting with this truck for awhile now on cold starts. even mildly cold it doesn't like to start. it eventually will but it takes forever.
If the truck is plugged in I don't seem to have any issues. Even in the summer when it was warm if the truck was cold overnight the first start of the day it always stuttered a bit.
Here is the AE Logs, these were from complete cold start at about 40F truck has been sitting for about 4 days at temps between 30-50F.
Truck DID NOT start after these crank attempts(but would have if i would have kept going) and after being plugged in for 20 or so minutes i cranked about 3 times and it seemed endless, didn't even try to start then out of the blue just fires perfect, no stumble or anything. This has me thinking its a sticky IPR, almost like once everything warms up enough the IPR unsticks and it fires.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
97 350 E40D, Rosewood DIY 160s,BD2 Turbo,Western Plow GPR,TS6POS,EBPV Gut/Del,99 Intercooler,FPR Mod,etc
Well i have been fighting with this truck for awhile now on cold starts. even mildly cold it doesn't like to start. it eventually will but it takes forever.
If the truck is plugged in I don't seem to have any issues. Even in the summer when it was warm if the truck was cold overnight the first start of the day it always stuttered a bit.
Here is the AE Logs, these were from complete cold start at about 40F truck has been sitting for about 4 days at temps between 30-50F.
Truck DID NOT start after these crank attempts(but would have if i would have kept going) and after being plugged in for 20 or so minutes i cranked about 3 times and it seemed endless, didn't even try to start then out of the blue just fires perfect, no stumble or anything. This has me thinking its a sticky IPR, almost like once everything warms up enough the IPR unsticks and it fires.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
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Joined: Apr 2007
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From: YYC
Pretty sure that's just where o had key on but not cranking?
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,195
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From: Medford Oregon
All conditions are there to start except "Injector Pulse Width".
1. RPM, minimum 100 rpm cranking speed (When warm it should be over 180 rpm).
2. ICP, minimum required for starting 500 psi if no rpm signal, ICP won't go over 400 psi.
3. Voltage during cranking 7-10 volts minimum depending on year.
4. Pulse Width; 0 ms means no sync, 1994-1997 .42 ms indicates that PCM and IDM are in sync (on 99-03 it should be .60 ms) and the PCM is waiting on the ICP to reach the minimum pressure. When min. ICP is reached PW should change to 1-6 ms.
Without the change in pulse width to at least 1 ms the injectors won't fire. I would suspect a bad CPS. Although it is detecting RPM it might not be detecting cylinder 1 and 4 properly as those slots in the cam ring gear are different sizes.
1. RPM, minimum 100 rpm cranking speed (When warm it should be over 180 rpm).
2. ICP, minimum required for starting 500 psi if no rpm signal, ICP won't go over 400 psi.
3. Voltage during cranking 7-10 volts minimum depending on year.
4. Pulse Width; 0 ms means no sync, 1994-1997 .42 ms indicates that PCM and IDM are in sync (on 99-03 it should be .60 ms) and the PCM is waiting on the ICP to reach the minimum pressure. When min. ICP is reached PW should change to 1-6 ms.
Without the change in pulse width to at least 1 ms the injectors won't fire. I would suspect a bad CPS. Although it is detecting RPM it might not be detecting cylinder 1 and 4 properly as those slots in the cam ring gear are different sizes.
Thread Starter
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More Turbo
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: YYC
All conditions are there to start except "Injector Pulse Width".
1. RPM, minimum 100 rpm cranking speed (When warm it should be over 180 rpm).
2. ICP, minimum required for starting 500 psi if no rpm signal, ICP won't go over 400 psi.
3. Voltage during cranking 7-10 volts minimum depending on year.
4. Pulse Width; 0 ms means no sync, 1994-1997 .42 ms indicates that PCM and IDM are in sync (on 99-03 it should be .60 ms) and the PCM is waiting on the ICP to reach the minimum pressure. When min. ICP is reached PW should change to 1-6 ms.
Without the change in pulse width to at least 1 ms the injectors won't fire. I would suspect a bad CPS. Although it is detecting RPM it might not be detecting cylinder 1 and 4 properly as those slots in the cam ring gear are different sizes.
1. RPM, minimum 100 rpm cranking speed (When warm it should be over 180 rpm).
2. ICP, minimum required for starting 500 psi if no rpm signal, ICP won't go over 400 psi.
3. Voltage during cranking 7-10 volts minimum depending on year.
4. Pulse Width; 0 ms means no sync, 1994-1997 .42 ms indicates that PCM and IDM are in sync (on 99-03 it should be .60 ms) and the PCM is waiting on the ICP to reach the minimum pressure. When min. ICP is reached PW should change to 1-6 ms.
Without the change in pulse width to at least 1 ms the injectors won't fire. I would suspect a bad CPS. Although it is detecting RPM it might not be detecting cylinder 1 and 4 properly as those slots in the cam ring gear are different sizes.
Thanks! This looks promising ibwill have to try and track down a CPS.
One question. Is there a reason it would start better when plugged in? Just a warmer CPS? Or do I still maybe have another underlying issue also?
Thanks
Dustin
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From: YYC
Just tested 3 of 4 banks. Only got a reading on 2 of the 6 pins tested one was .08 one was .09 my leads had a resistance of 0.2 themselves. I didnt bother testing the back drivers plug as it appears I need glow plugs regardless.
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Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,195
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From: Medford Oregon
That should help on cold starts. On CPS make sure you get one from Ford or International. The part store items are very poor quality and usually introduce problems like you are currently experiencing.
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From: YYC
I am going to pickup a CPS Tomorrow from Ford/International whoever has one in stock or can get it quickest.
Also priced all all my glow plugs and VCG and harnesses, i did them on my last truck. these gaskets and GPs were done about 5 years ago according to PO and they look really good and clean but for the $110 i might as well replace them with the Dorman ones.
Should i be worried about injector o rings? i notice IPR duty gets to 45%
Also priced all all my glow plugs and VCG and harnesses, i did them on my last truck. these gaskets and GPs were done about 5 years ago according to PO and they look really good and clean but for the $110 i might as well replace them with the Dorman ones.
Should i be worried about injector o rings? i notice IPR duty gets to 45%
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From: YYC
but maybe if my FOMOCO ones i good i can save the $110.
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,195
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From: Medford Oregon
I am going to pickup a CPS Tomorrow from Ford/International whoever has one in stock or can get it quickest.
Also priced all all my glow plugs and VCG and harnesses, i did them on my last truck. these gaskets and GPs were done about 5 years ago according to PO and they look really good and clean but for the $110 i might as well replace them with the Dorman ones.
Should i be worried about injector o rings? i notice IPR duty gets to 45%
Also priced all all my glow plugs and VCG and harnesses, i did them on my last truck. these gaskets and GPs were done about 5 years ago according to PO and they look really good and clean but for the $110 i might as well replace them with the Dorman ones.
Should i be worried about injector o rings? i notice IPR duty gets to 45%
Fleet Owner
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 21,437
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From: Gilbert, PA
I have heard that from some, i did the Dorman VCG on my last truck and really liked them. i actually liked them more than the Ford because the harnesses are all one piece so there is no chance of a clip or anything breaking underneath.
but maybe if my FOMOCO ones i good i can save the $110.
but maybe if my FOMOCO ones i good i can save the $110.
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Joined: Apr 2007
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From: YYC
Don't think so as IPR duty cycle keeps going up due to injector pulse width not increasing, for whatever reasoning Ford engineers decided on. As far as glow plugs and VCG and harnesses you might want to check the actual glow plug resistance(s) if all harnesses look good, your call.