okay so i have a 2003 7.3 with 240,000 miles. A little brief history before i get into the nitty gritty. bought this truck a year ago with 220 on the clock. last april the transmission blew out but it was bad when i bought it so i put in a used unit with 51k. truck has driven fine ever since then. I chipped the truck a coupe months ago had my fun and now i have removed the chip.

the problems all started a couple months ago when i noticed my truck would act like i had my 10k mod on and would have extra touchy throttle and slightly lope a little bit (those of you with the 10k mod will know what i mean) the truck would throw some codes but i never had them scanned because the truck drove fine and i didn't have time. i believe the issue is either the ice, idm, or ipr. when i would get into the truck while cold the CEL would be lit up while i was waiting on the glow plugs and after start up it would stay on for about 5 mins and the truck again would sound like my chip was turned up to hot or the 10k mod was on. i don't know you guys have ever listened to your trucks idle on different chip setting but you can for sure notice a difference and you can hear the extra fuel its getting. so after about 5 mins of the truck warming up the CEL would go out and the truck would abruptly change tone and go back to it sounding like stock. (remember my chip has been removed at this point)

okay so onto the next issue. about 2 weeks ago i was driving and the truck and it stalled and shut down and i thought i had fried the pcm with the chip so i pulled the chip and the truck restarted. drove it home fine and parked it. now the issues i mentioned above are still going on at this point in start up. so fast forward now to this weekend i was using my truck to drag out some large oak logs for firewood and i was pulling with the truck in 4 low and the truck was not sounding like stock it was acting as if i had my chip on and it was revving high spooling up and then when i let off the gas after a hard pull the turbo surged and the truck shut off. i immediately fired it back up because i wanted the engine to cool down while idling. now i do not have gauges but this pull was probably 30 seconds and none of the dummy gauges moved but i was scared i over heated it so i popped the hood and there was ZERO coolant in the degas bottle. this worried me that i had blown my head gaskets. i go back into he truck and gave the truck a little throttle. and out the tail pipe comes BLUE SMOKE!! not a lot of blue smoke but it puffed up about 3 times but at idle there is no smoke. So after about 5 mins of idling and sitting in my truck wiping my tears i go check under the hood again and the degas bottle is half full . i then check the oil and it looked okay and i gave a visual inspection of the engine looking for signs of blown heads. after that quick check i saw the degas bottle was now back to full??? so how does my degas bottle completely go dry and then fill it self back up

so after that day i took the truck home and noticed that it was driving fine sounded good just like it always does but now if i rev it hard i will get a little white smoke and a small hint of black and this truck never used to smoke anything i mean nothing even on cold starts there was maybe the slightest slightest hint of white smoke but that was gone in a millisecond. and no matter how hard i tired i never could get this thing to roll coal stock but now it will just a little.

okay onto the next part of the story and if your still reading THANK YOU! so I'm on the way to deliver 2 cords of green firewood to this guy and he lives in these hilly back roads. so i pull to his house and he comes out and wants me to drive up this hill which i would call 80-90% straight up and down. i said what the heck I've pulled heavier loads than this and i am driving a legundery 7.3 right? so i put the truck in 2 and give it hell. i get about half way up and this is where the truck begins to struggle i look at the gauges and my rims are holding at 2500 but the speedo is at 0 and not moving which was odd. then next thing i know I'm at the top of the hill and there is smoke everywhere i get out pop the hood and white smoke comes pouring out and i look at the degas bottle and guess what empty again. then i look at the ground and see about 5 quarts of tranny fluid on the ground. i begin to kick my self and try to collect my thoughts .

So my question to you knowledgeable 7.3 gents is what have a i messed up and how should i commence determining what needs to be replaced and where do i go from here?? I plan to keep this truck forever and do not care about throwing money at it. now that doesn't mean i have money to throw at it but when i do get money i dump in into this truck. i did some reading on here and found that my transmission front seal may have heated up allowing fluid to spew out and then cooled off and resealed. the trans mission still goes into gear and moved the truck but i have not driven it i only backed up a little so the tow truck could get to me.

so have i blown my head gaskets? where is the mysterious coolant going to? do i need a tranny rebuild or just flush it and hope for the best?

 

did you check the oil?

 

Does your degas bottle have a lot of soot lining the walls? Does the coolant have anything foreign in it? Does it give off an odor other than antifreeze?

There are many possibilities, but the likeliest candidates are a blown radiator (transmission cooler in radiator) or a blown cup and a separate transmission issue.

What color was your transmission fluid on the ground - cherry red or brownish?

 

tony- yes i checked the oil and it looked good still even had a hint of golden brown from my rosella t6 synthetic. i change the oil every 3000 and keep up on all maintenence.

tugly- the degas has had that brown sandy stuff all in it since i bought the truck i really need to get a coolant filter on it but just haven't gotten to it. the coolant looked normal to me like it always does.

when you say blown cup are you meaning blown injector cup?

it was dark out but it did seem a little brown

 

Do you see any coolant stains on the fan shroud, coolant hoses, or leaks around those stock hose clamps? The heater hose coming out of the top of the water pump?

Without a chip - I can't see how you would blow a head gasket on a 7.3L. But first I would refill the coolant and test the pressure in the degas bottle to see if there is any indication of a pressure problem. The stock cap should have a 16 psi pressure rating.

 

im not with the truck right now but i will check later when i get back. the thing is the truck is acting like it is still chipped. I'm wondering if from having the chip on their for so long it is still programmed? should i have the cpm flashed or just get a new one. or maybe i have a ice issue?

also how do i go about performing a pressure test?

 

Any idea how old the coolant or thermostat is? Did you notice the engine temp? Was it hot or overheated or hear the fan clutch engage? Might be the thermostat sticking.

 

Not trying to be a smart butt - there may be a reader that finds this thread in the future and we need to get that "ice" to ICP (Injector Control Pressure). IF your ICP sensor is going bad, they typically read high and the computer unwittingly tries to adjust the pressure lower - making the truck anemic. If you have one of the rare trucks with the ICP sensor reading lower than what the pressure actually is, then the computer will boost the IPR (Injection Pressure Regulator) signal - making the truck run like it's on a chip. Pull the connector on the ICP sensor and look for oil in there, clean it out, and test drive the truck. Your 10K mod, your chip, and maybe even bad injector O-rings may have conspired to over-pressurize the ICP, blowing out the sensor. This is a common ailment on our age of truck.


A cold engine has raised ICP by default, and it eases down when the truck warms - this is to atomize the fuel better when cold. If your ICP sensor is lying like I mentioned above, the ICP could go quite high when the engine is cold.


Are you hearing a lot of knocking in the engine? I don't mean low-grade cackle or block-ripping rod knock - I mean something that sounds like a localized knock? I've heard air in oil, air in fuel, and injectors come loose - they can all make the truck knock pretty loud.


If you have a programmer, the program can get stuck. If you have a chip that plugs into the PCM, the chip does nothing to the program in the PCM - it over-rides many of the PCM commands. Pulling the chip leaves no electronic/programming trace that it was ever there.


I was referring to injector cups. Cups are far more likely than a blown head gasket - the 7.3L doesn't give up that easy. A blown cup usually puts fuel and/or exhaust in the degas, Stinky had exhaust in the degas when he blew a cup - but no fuel (loose injector/bad nozzle washer).


You really need to analyze what's in the coolant. You may have something as simple as a bad ICP sensor and a blown radiator - making you think the mix of symptoms is from one catastrophic source.


You might want to hold off on that pressure test until you sort out what's in the coolant. Pushing coolant into whatever is open to it may not be the call just yet.

 

DND58- i replaced the water pump this summer and thermostat and of course flushed and put in new diesel specific coolant. I'm just still confused on where this coolant is escaping to and then coming back. i mean literally the whole degas bottle will be empty and then 5 mins later it will be back to full.

Tugly- first off thank you for all the help you have been great. i did notice that i spelled ICP wrong thank your for correcting me.

Your explanation of what the ICP is doing is dead on with my symptoms. mine is no doubt higher than normal and it also throws a code. I can always tell when its going to do it because when i turn the key to wait for the glow plugs either the CEL will come on for a quick second with all the other lights like normal or the CEL will stay on while I'm waiting for my glow plugs and every time it does i get the strange very high fueling. i really don't hear a knock in my engine it sounds like a healthy 7.3

okay so should i drain the coolant and try to see if i have oil, exhaust, or fuel in it and then go from there?

I'm guessing i will have to pull the injectors to see if i have one with a blown cup?

 

Disconnect the ICP sensor and start the truck with it unplugged and see if the symptoms change or persist. With the ICP sensor unplugged you will still throw a check engine light and you will hear a louder cackle from the injectors since the PCM is using a set data table instead of the sensor readings.

Do you have a way of reading & clearing trouble codes?

 

okay i will unplug it and see what it does, what should i be looking for and if the symptoms do change does that mean go buy a new one? and where should i buy a new one. i have a international dealer and a ford dealer right next door to each other so its not a problem to go to either one.

i don't have a code reader but I'm seriously thinking about buying AE, it sounds like a very sound investment

 

Well, in my opinion - Auto Enginuity (or something similar) is an invaluable tool when troubleshooting my 7.3L's. Well worth the $$.....

When you unplug the ICP sensor you will set a check engine light. 1280 code - low ICP. The PCM then goes off the the stored data tables since the sensor's data is unusable.

On a cold engine with the ICP sensor unplugged, the cackle might sound a bit louder since the ICP is a bit higher (IIRC).

What we are after here is to see if one of your problems is a faulty ICP sensor. Since you don't have AE or a way to read codes (yet), wait until the check engine light goes off before you unplug the sensor. When you unplug the sensor the check engine light should come back on and the cackle a bit louder. These sensors are kind of pricey.....but make sure you get a real Ford one.

Clay at Riffraff Diesel has great prices......... $145
I think the Ford Dealers are around $200

Injection Control Pressure ICP Sensor 97-03 - Riffraff Diesel Performance

Edit : I've had a bad CPS in my 2003 pick-up cause it to stall. Then a bad ICP sensor in my Excursion do the same.

 

As far as the coolant goes,

I would check those stock tension clamps around the radiator hoses for signs of fluid. I've had mine leak there twice, but only after the engine reached normal operating temps. On top if it my cap would not release any pressure and cause the hoses to bulge, helping the leak. Pretty cheap to just replace the radiator cap ($18 at Ford) .

The pressure test can help determine if the leak is internal. You can do a quick search and see some examples of what some have made and/or bought. But I would rule out all the external leaks first - these are the most likely.

Next time when the level is low, try (carefully & cautiously) loosening the degas cap and see if the level returns towards normal.

 

I've decided I'm going to go ahead and get the new ice i ordered it from riff raff and will install when it gets here. hopefully that will cure one of my many problems with this truck if not ill have to start looking into the IPR and IDM.


the thing with the coolant is that after i have a really hard pull when i would be pulling out these logs from the woods i would jump out quick and check the level and it would be low. i opened the cap and there was as much pressure as just opening a soda bottle probably less and the level did not change. but if i just sit there for about 5 mins the level will start to rise very slowly fill the degas.
am i expanding something internally allowing coolant to fill there and leave the degas bottle then as the truck cools the coolant is being pushed back into the system??

 

I'm no expert on fluid dynamics but let's try to think this through out loud again:

If I understand you correctly,

1. Your fluid level in the degas bottle is at the normal level when starting off for the day (next time mark it with a grease pencil or marker & take a pic).
2. After a hard run the degas bottle is very low - How low? Inches, the whole bottle, etc....again - take another picture
3. Let her sit for 5 min the degas bottle is reading at the original normal location. (take a 3rd pic)


Sound correct so far? No coolant loss?

Pictures would really help here - we can help you post them up until you reach the 20 post minimum.