Everyone has thier achilles heel, mine appears to be automatic transmissions... Time to pick some brains here!

I just put a B&M 2000RPM stall converter in the C6 in my 64 F100(351C, Comp Cams 280H cam, headers, 3.90's, etc etc...). The only other change to the tranny while it was out was a new filter. For all practical purposes I now have five neutrals and a park...

I made sure it was the same dimensions of the TC that came out before I put the new one in (I used the input shaft from a dead one I have laying around...) including pilots, drive splines, and pump drive distance across the flats. Everything bolted together fine, and I made sure it has the requisit 12 1/2 quarts in it. The linkage is adjusted, and the kickdown and vacuum lines are hooked up (for what good that does with 7" of vacuum from the motor on a good day downhill with your foot off the gas... ).

sitting dead cold if I rev it up to about 3500 - 4K RMP it will 'slip' down the road for a few miles before it heats up and I get nothing (I'm not continuing to try this... believe me! besides, with the flowmasters on it the neighbors really have a problem with that kind of driving style).

My main question is this - the C6 obviously isn't the original tranny, and the kid I bought the truck from had no idea what it came out of. The dipstick is marked 'Type F', but he said he 'was pretty sure' it had been rebuilt in the past (it was spotless on the inside when I changed the filter) and 'thought' it should now take dextron II, so that is what I stuck in it - the blind leading the blindfolded. I know Type F has friction modifiers, would it cause this much slip by using the dextron stuff without them? As far as I can tell the pump is working fine, and there aren't any strange noises you can hear over the roar of the flowmasters at 3K RPM...
Any and all help is appreciated!

 

I should probably add the fluid is still bright pink and it doesn't look like there are any shavings or anything in it...

 

The oil type won't cause any problems..Your best bet would be to either get a pressure gauge on there or maybe remove one of the cooler lines and start it and see if there is any oil flow..

 

There isn't a cooler in the radiator, I have two external coolers - they are both getting hot, so I know fluid is flowing. I don't have any idea what pressure it's at though...

I did drain the mercon out and put type F back in - you are correct, it didn't help I also adjusted the intermediate band (I could only find mention of the one band to adjust on a C6 - I was used to there being two on C4's, am I missing one? I don't really think it would make a difference, if it was just one band I'd still have something in forward or reverse... You are probably right about it having to be fluid pressure related.

The thing that gets me the most about this whole deal is that I didn't change anything while it was out... Grrrr

 

Well the next step would be to drop the valvebody out and do some air testing..If you look in a manual it will show which port to apply air to and how to do the checks .You will want to test each clutch..
Since you have no gears at all i suspect the problem could be in the valvebody..
One other thought i have come across,you do have the correct filter..There are 3 different types...The problem comes if you use the filter that has the rubber grommet in it that is designed for the deep pan,if it's used in a shallow pan it seals against the pan bottom and very little oil will get through..
Just a few ideas,,let us know what you find..

 

I did use the filter with the grommet, but I do have the deep pan so there shouldn't be a problem - I bought both styles the parts store listed since I wasn't sure of the donor vehicle and that was the one that matched. It is a thought though... my pan isn't dented, but I don't know what the tolerance is on those filters - how much clearance is usually there?

Since it slipped badly at first and went downhill from there I'm actually leaning more toward two scenarios (maybe three with your filter tip!) - the front pump was weak anyway and the new torque converter did something to kill it, or the mercon I put in it originally took out my bands and clutches... I didn't mess with the valve body, and there was zero garbage in the pan or anywhere else that I could see, so I doubt I stirred anything up to clog up the valve body.

This tranny has a history anyway - when I bought it there wasn't a kick-down lever on it, the kid had just sinched a nut onto the shaft so it moved with the shift lever (another one if his 'fixes', some of the stuff I found that he did to this truck was unbelievable), and it slipped some then (not a big surprise). Once I cleaned that up with a Lokar kickdown and adjusted everything it worked ok most of the time, but it would slip a little if I had to do a lot of stop and go traffic (I live in Dallas, there is ALWAYS stop and go traffic...). I figured the thing wouldn't live to long behind the 351c I stuffed in anyway... but I was hoping it would stay together for a couple of months anyway so I could save some money to have it bullet proofed. I ride my bike most of the time and don't put a lot of miles on the truck, so it would have taken that long to break the new motor in anyway.

to make a long story short (too late!) I think I'm going to just put it in the shop Monday to have one strong enough to survive built - and just fork the money over now. But I'll post the forensics that the shop finds, it's driving me nuts wanting to know what happened!

 

The filter with the grommet is designed for the 4WD pan which is 3" deep and steps down in the centre and has seperate tube goes into the grommet..
The filter does sit pretty close to the base of the pan anyway but if you have the shallow pan which is shallower towards the back than the front it will block the filter..
The medium type pan is the same depth all the way and is approx 2" deep..I think the grommet type filter will be very close to the pan in this one..
Might be worth a look..
Not much usually goes wrong with the pump and since the coolers are getting warm i would assume it's ok..
The oil definitely won't of harmed anything..I think mercon is the same as dexron 3 which is what i use anyway..Good luck..

 

Hmm...Now you have me wondering - the '64 isn't my 4-by-4... It's rear drive with the 2" pan; There isn't a pickup tube... The old filter was definetly the 4x4 one you describe with the grommet; with some of the other stuff done to this truck I can see him putting the wrong filter in it - maybe the one I got was just slightly deeper than what he had put in it.

I had already resigned to shelling out the bucks to have a bulletproof one built... now I'm torn between still letting them do it or tearing into it one more time!

decisions decisions... I'll feel pretty stoopid if that is all that was wrong...

 

i suspect a lip seal at one of the clutch packs was damaged during rebuild and doesn't hold pressure.

 

nothing was rebuilt... I didn't even go so far as to drop the valve body out of it...

 

If the filter was a problem and couldn't suck fluid then the pump would be whinning. If the filter wasn't into the oil then overfill it as a test. A gauge on line pressure will tell you lots though. Keep in mind, even if you have it professinally rebuilt, that "kickdown" rod or cable does more than just give you kickdown. It also gives you a big boost in pressure (for holding power) when you launch the vehicle. It's very important and has to have the right throttle relationship (adjustment)

 

I have the kickdown adjusted to correspond with the secondaries (it's got a double pumper, so determining that is a breeze...). It's not engaging squat so I doubt it's the kickdown at this point.

There might be a slight whine that wasn't there before, but over the roar of the Flowmaster 40's it's hard to tell!

I ran out of time and have to go back to work, so I don't really have time to fix it now; it's going into the shop to have a performance rebuild done to it. I appreciate everyone's help - I'll post what they come up with as far as what the problem was...

 

The problem was the pump according to the shop - got it back today... Woo Hoo.

I picked it up after work right as the place was closing; I pretty much just got to take it around the block and didn't get to put it through it's paces then; I had to leave it there and come back for it later 'cause I didn't want to leave my bike up there. When I got it home after wondering what was up on the drive I found out they had the kick-down lever installed backwards and the cinch-bolt on the B&M shifter arm wasn't even tightened down so the adjustment was off, and they had left one of the motor/tranny bolts out - they were long gone by then or I would have raised a stink. Right now I'm hoping they have a guru that rebuilds the trannys and hacks that do the swaps (this what happens when you go with the lowest bidder?) - it works great once I straightened the linkage problems out so I'm hoping the internals are done right.

lesson learned...

 

I have noticed that tranny shops frequently leave one or two motor-bellhousing bolts missing or loose. If they don't have enough extension on the gun to put them in, and don't feel like changing, they just assume that the average schmoe will never be under there inspecting. Mine, However went back, and I personally watched as they put the bolt in, and used a torque wrench on ALL of the rest of the bolts on the tranny and T-Case. Cheers