electrical issue
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Feb 2000
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From: Mesa
electrical issue
on my coleman popup, the tail lights come on when the battery is hooked up. It is one of those it was fine on the last trip and now it's not things. When plugged into the tow vehicle all lights and brakes work fine. The lights are not bright but maybe 1/2 power when this happens. Another odd thing is at random times for random amount of time all the 12v power in the trailer would go out. No interior lights or power to the water pump. Battery still tests fully charged.
The only place I can think of where Battery power comes in contact with the tail lights is in the trailer power cord to vehicle. Any other ideas or places to check?
The only place I can think of where Battery power comes in contact with the tail lights is in the trailer power cord to vehicle. Any other ideas or places to check?
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 10,060
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From: Bristol, TN.
on my coleman popup, the tail lights come on when the battery is hooked up. It is one of those it was fine on the last trip and now it's not things. When plugged into the tow vehicle all lights and brakes work fine. The lights are not bright but maybe 1/2 power when this happens. Another odd thing is at random times for random amount of time all the 12v power in the trailer would go out. No interior lights or power to the water pump. Battery still tests fully charged.
The only place I can think of where Battery power comes in contact with the tail lights is in the trailer power cord to vehicle. Any other ideas or places to check?
The only place I can think of where Battery power comes in contact with the tail lights is in the trailer power cord to vehicle. Any other ideas or places to check?
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 10,060
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From: Bristol, TN.
Going to have to loose the converter and battery ground simultaneously to cause total 12 VDC power loss. That is why knowing the status of the shoreline and converter output when this happens is important.
Steve
Steve
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Logistics Pro
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From: Mesa
Sorry about the delay. It wasn't on shore power at the time, dry camping. Not plugged into anything. We haven't tried it at home on shore power. I did hook the battery back up(had to disconnect it to turn the tail light off lol) and the lights didn't come back on. That was only for a minute. Battery is inside being charged.
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Hotshot
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Drummonds, TN USA
If the tail lights come on no matter what when the battery is connected - you have a constant voltage drain on the battery.
I'm surprised no one mentioned that.
The tail lights should only come on when connected to the tow vehicle, and ITS lights are on.
The shoreline has nothing to do with it - I'm convinced of that because it shouldn't.
WHERE I HAVE SEEN AN ISSUE LIKE THIS IS WHEN THERE IS CORROSION SHORTING OUT A CONNECTOR or when water has intruded into a critical area that connections are found.
Look for rust, especially in any place where wires are connected to terminals. I'd bet anything you have a bad connector
*and as always, clean up ALL ground connections before you do anything else.
~Wolfie sendzzz
PS: Question - where do the turn and tail lights have a close connection to the battery charging circuit? Look there.
There is a place in your pop-up where the battery positive is crossing over to your tail lights. It should not happen
STIPULATED!
The only place I can think of is at a point where several wires are connected closely together.
I'm surprised no one mentioned that.
The tail lights should only come on when connected to the tow vehicle, and ITS lights are on.
The shoreline has nothing to do with it - I'm convinced of that because it shouldn't.
WHERE I HAVE SEEN AN ISSUE LIKE THIS IS WHEN THERE IS CORROSION SHORTING OUT A CONNECTOR or when water has intruded into a critical area that connections are found.
Look for rust, especially in any place where wires are connected to terminals. I'd bet anything you have a bad connector
*and as always, clean up ALL ground connections before you do anything else.
~Wolfie sendzzz
PS: Question - where do the turn and tail lights have a close connection to the battery charging circuit? Look there.
There is a place in your pop-up where the battery positive is crossing over to your tail lights. It should not happen
STIPULATED!
The only place I can think of is at a point where several wires are connected closely together.
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 10,060
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From: Bristol, TN.
It is true the lights require current to light and should only work when connected to the tow vehicle, but it is not true there has to even be a battery in the circuit which was why I asked if it was connected to the shoreline. I have to replace a lot of power converters in pop-ups and wondered if the converter was playing a role in the problem. All we know at the start is current is reaching the lights.
My first step is always to break the system into parts so I can rule things out and focus on what the problem is. Since the recent post enables me to rule out the shoreline and converter, I can start breaking down the battery circuit.
Steve
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 29,941
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From: Drummonds, TN USA
The tail lights are a completely separated system - which is my point.
There should be no connection between them.
All of the "HOUSE" power is isolated from the directional and marker lights, which was a stand out clue. There is a connection that isn't supposed to be there, and that often happens from corrosion within a connector where several wires or contacts can have rust or crud join them.
Yes it is twelve volts - and that is standard automotive power voltage.
But those systems never connect unless there is a short somewhere...
Where would you guess?
The power for those lights comes in along the main cable from the tow to the trailer - and then they go their separate ways.
There should be no connection between them.
All of the "HOUSE" power is isolated from the directional and marker lights, which was a stand out clue. There is a connection that isn't supposed to be there, and that often happens from corrosion within a connector where several wires or contacts can have rust or crud join them.
Yes it is twelve volts - and that is standard automotive power voltage.
But those systems never connect unless there is a short somewhere...
Where would you guess?
The power for those lights comes in along the main cable from the tow to the trailer - and then they go their separate ways.
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 10,060
Likes: 491
From: Bristol, TN.
The tail lights are a completely separated system - which is my point.
There should be no connection between them.
All of the "HOUSE" power is isolated from the directional and marker lights, which was a stand out clue. There is a connection that isn't supposed to be there, and that often happens from corrosion within a connector where several wires or contacts can have rust or crud join them.
Yes it is twelve volts - and that is standard automotive power voltage.
But those systems never connect unless there is a short somewhere...
Where would you guess?
The power for those lights comes in along the main cable from the tow to the trailer - and then they go their separate ways.
There should be no connection between them.
All of the "HOUSE" power is isolated from the directional and marker lights, which was a stand out clue. There is a connection that isn't supposed to be there, and that often happens from corrosion within a connector where several wires or contacts can have rust or crud join them.
Yes it is twelve volts - and that is standard automotive power voltage.
But those systems never connect unless there is a short somewhere...
Where would you guess?
The power for those lights comes in along the main cable from the tow to the trailer - and then they go their separate ways.
But there is a short which is precisely my point. Once you have a short, all bets are off about where it is located. Once you are into the J box you have a connection there to the battery and converter. Since the OP had to pull the battery to kill the lights, and there is no other power source, you know the battery is providing the current, no argument there.
Now go the other way. Suppose you had a shoreline power to the J box and the battery and you pulled the battery and were plugged in and still had lights. You could still have a short in the J box fed by the shoreline.
Assuming lights when the seven pin is unplugged, the next logic step would be to pull the cover on the J box, at least that is what I would do next and take a look-see. You could also have a shorted seven pin cord, but I think that is less likely, at least in my experience.
Steve
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 29,941
Likes: 46
From: Drummonds, TN USA
So what we have is a short between a pair of 12 volt lines that should definitely be separated? Right?
Doesn't that narrow down where the possible cross-over point could be?
It's got to be in the main electrical box where the cable from the truck comes in. Unless there is some other place they come together.
Usually the wires for the tail lights don't come anywhere near the converter outputs after that.
My guess is the connector at the truck end, or the junction box where the wires are connected in the trailer
If the output of the convertor (12V) ran back to the same place it would be stupid engineering - especially if it was subject to weather damage. Come to think of it - it would also be redundant. By why expect designers to be intelligent?
~ Most of the engineers I have known would make rotten next door neighbors
Doesn't that narrow down where the possible cross-over point could be?
It's got to be in the main electrical box where the cable from the truck comes in. Unless there is some other place they come together.
Usually the wires for the tail lights don't come anywhere near the converter outputs after that.
My guess is the connector at the truck end, or the junction box where the wires are connected in the trailer
If the output of the convertor (12V) ran back to the same place it would be stupid engineering - especially if it was subject to weather damage. Come to think of it - it would also be redundant. By why expect designers to be intelligent?
~ Most of the engineers I have known would make rotten next door neighbors
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 10,060
Likes: 491
From: Bristol, TN.
So what we have is a short between a pair of 12 volt lines that should definitely be separated? Right?
Doesn't that narrow down where the possible cross-over point could be?
It's got to be in the main electrical box where the cable from the truck comes in. Unless there is some other place they come together.
Usually the wires for the tail lights don't come anywhere near the converter outputs after that.
My guess is the connector at the truck end, or the junction box where the wires are connected in the trailer
If the output of the convertor (12V) ran back to the same place it would be stupid engineering - especially if it was subject to weather damage. Come to think of it - it would also be redundant. By why expect designers to be intelligent?
~ Most of the engineers I have known would make rotten next door neighbors
Doesn't that narrow down where the possible cross-over point could be?
It's got to be in the main electrical box where the cable from the truck comes in. Unless there is some other place they come together.
Usually the wires for the tail lights don't come anywhere near the converter outputs after that.
My guess is the connector at the truck end, or the junction box where the wires are connected in the trailer
If the output of the convertor (12V) ran back to the same place it would be stupid engineering - especially if it was subject to weather damage. Come to think of it - it would also be redundant. By why expect designers to be intelligent?
~ Most of the engineers I have known would make rotten next door neighbors
Maybe nothing, but I would still like to know.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 29,941
Likes: 46
From: Drummonds, TN USA
I bet the battery was dead.
But it would be typical of a corroded circuit that it was intermittent...
I guess we will see what happens, but as it stands I recommend that the junction box and cable itself be looked at.
But it would be typical of a corroded circuit that it was intermittent...
I guess we will see what happens, but as it stands I recommend that the junction box and cable itself be looked at.