351c 4v heads?
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 917
Likes: 14
351c 4v heads?
these any good to put on a 400 going in a truck? THANKS
http://lansing.craigslist.org/pts/4708722931.html
http://lansing.craigslist.org/pts/4708722931.html
Freshman User
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: Cypress
It all depends on what your set up is and what you are building. Here is a link with some information on it.
M-Block 351M/400 Parts Reference
M-Block 351M/400 Parts Reference
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 917
Likes: 14
i have all that info, i know these have a large intake port and that can hurt low end trq. I just dont know enough about these heads to make a call, i know the 351m/400 heads dont flow that well on the exhaust side with out a lot of porting. THANKS though.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,118
Likes: 103
From: North Idaho
Bud Mud,
There are two things when doing a 400 4V...
Intake manifold - you will need to run a 351C 4V manifold and spacer plates to make up for the taller deck of the 400
Exhaust manifolds or headers - no such animal for 4V heads in a truck so you are going to have to fabricate something
It all depends on what kind of performance you are looking for. You can get 325 to 375 without too much trouble out of a "normal" 400 performance rebuild. 400+ is going to take a little more work, and if you are going to put the effort into the 4V heads, I would recommend something in the 500 HP range just to make it worthwhile! The 4V heads are a serious piece of performance hardware, don't waste them on a build that isn't pretty serious.
There are two things when doing a 400 4V...
Intake manifold - you will need to run a 351C 4V manifold and spacer plates to make up for the taller deck of the 400
Exhaust manifolds or headers - no such animal for 4V heads in a truck so you are going to have to fabricate something
It all depends on what kind of performance you are looking for. You can get 325 to 375 without too much trouble out of a "normal" 400 performance rebuild. 400+ is going to take a little more work, and if you are going to put the effort into the 4V heads, I would recommend something in the 500 HP range just to make it worthwhile! The 4V heads are a serious piece of performance hardware, don't waste them on a build that isn't pretty serious.
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 917
Likes: 14
Bud Mud,
There are two things when doing a 400 4V...
Intake manifold - you will need to run a 351C 4V manifold and spacer plates to make up for the taller deck of the 400
Exhaust manifolds or headers - no such animal for 4V heads in a truck so you are going to have to fabricate something
It all depends on what kind of performance you are looking for. You can get 325 to 375 without too much trouble out of a "normal" 400 performance rebuild. 400+ is going to take a little more work, and if you are going to put the effort into the 4V heads, I would recommend something in the 500 HP range just to make it worthwhile! The 4V heads are a serious piece of performance hardware, don't waste them on a build that isn't pretty serious.
There are two things when doing a 400 4V...
Intake manifold - you will need to run a 351C 4V manifold and spacer plates to make up for the taller deck of the 400
Exhaust manifolds or headers - no such animal for 4V heads in a truck so you are going to have to fabricate something
It all depends on what kind of performance you are looking for. You can get 325 to 375 without too much trouble out of a "normal" 400 performance rebuild. 400+ is going to take a little more work, and if you are going to put the effort into the 4V heads, I would recommend something in the 500 HP range just to make it worthwhile! The 4V heads are a serious piece of performance hardware, don't waste them on a build that isn't pretty serious.
More Turbo
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 661
Likes: 6
From: parma
I have an edelbrock streetmaster 400 single plain manifold. That wouldn't work instead of using spacers? I didn't use it on my build, but used a dual plane performer 400 instead. Motor will be in truck soon I hope.
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Junior User
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Ontario, Canada
If someone did build a 400 with 4V heads, could you not just use Sanderson shorty headers? They are made to fit 4V exhaust ports (you need to buy the adaptor plate for the 2V heads).
Sanderson Headers for Ford 351C Cleveland and 351/400M Big Block V8 engine applications.
Also, using pre 1975 400 heads or 351C-2V heads is an easy way to improve exhaust flow since they have a less restrictive exhaust port. These heads are usually pretty cheap too compared to 4V's or Aussies.
Sanderson Headers for Ford 351C Cleveland and 351/400M Big Block V8 engine applications.
Also, using pre 1975 400 heads or 351C-2V heads is an easy way to improve exhaust flow since they have a less restrictive exhaust port. These heads are usually pretty cheap too compared to 4V's or Aussies.
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Senior User
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 124
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From: canton michigan
Hotshot
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
Likes: 25
From: south louisiana
Some of the 400 intake manifolds do have enough "meat" around the ports to seal a 351C 4bbl port. Only one way to find out and that's to try it. As for the loss of velocity in them vs the 2 bbl ports, a lot of that is hype. I for one have driven a stock 351C 4 bbl car (71 Torino) and it was no slouch on the street at the bottomend, even with an auto trans and 3.00 rear. So I don't believe they'll inhibit a 400 at all.
Junior User
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Ontario, Canada
There is quite a difference between 2V and 4V ports. The Wikipedia page gives the rough dimensions of the port size. I also included a link to a photo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_3...Cylinder_heads
http://www.panteraplace.com/Tech%20I...%20tongues.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_3...Cylinder_heads
http://www.panteraplace.com/Tech%20I...%20tongues.jpg
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 124
Likes: 1
From: canton michigan
if you run aussie heads you can use standard 400 intake
and standard headers and from what I have read up so far these heads quench for reduced spark knock
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aussie-Ford-351-Cleveland-cylinder-heads-2V-Closed-Chamber-351C-Australian-Aus-/271636942035?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f3ed2ccd3&vxp=mtr
and standard headers and from what I have read up so far these heads quench for reduced spark knock
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aussie-Ford-351-Cleveland-cylinder-heads-2V-Closed-Chamber-351C-Australian-Aus-/271636942035?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f3ed2ccd3&vxp=mtr
Junior User
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 81
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From: Ontario, Canada
According to what I have read from old Ford literature and the excellent write up from the Cleveland site, the closed chamber heads are not any better at resisting detonation. It seems the big issue with the 400's and detonation is the excessive deck clearance with stock pistons and stock replacement pistons. TMI pistons resolved this problem.
"The combustion chambers are either the "open" style or the "quench" style. The quench style chamber encloses the valves more tightly in order to reduce the volume of the combustion chamber. There is no power advantage in using the quench combustion chambers over the open combustion chambers, both combustion chambers have the same thermal efficiency, and both combustion chambers are equally resistant to detonation as well. The two practical advantages of a quench combustion chamber are (1) low rpm turbulence improves low rpm torque, giving a street motor a small degree better response to the throttle and (2) less machine shop work is required to achieve compression ratios in the range of 9.5:1 to 11.0:1 with flat top pistons. "
source:
Ford 351C STOCKERS ROCK!!: The 351 Cleveland Cylinder Head
"The combustion chambers are either the "open" style or the "quench" style. The quench style chamber encloses the valves more tightly in order to reduce the volume of the combustion chamber. There is no power advantage in using the quench combustion chambers over the open combustion chambers, both combustion chambers have the same thermal efficiency, and both combustion chambers are equally resistant to detonation as well. The two practical advantages of a quench combustion chamber are (1) low rpm turbulence improves low rpm torque, giving a street motor a small degree better response to the throttle and (2) less machine shop work is required to achieve compression ratios in the range of 9.5:1 to 11.0:1 with flat top pistons. "
source:
Ford 351C STOCKERS ROCK!!: The 351 Cleveland Cylinder Head
Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,937
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From: wyoming
I have a 408" 400 4v head open chamber. Air gap edelbrock intake with spacer plates! Runs great in my 4wd crew. Used 351 Cleveland piston and bushed the con rods to fit piston pin. This is not a engine you slap together!!! I believe the standard head will work fine and throttle response will be better in low rpms, 1500 and down. But once past that the big heads take over!!! My engine is around 400 to 420 hrspwr. I live at 4000' elev. and hurts my hrspwr. I did port fillers to help keep port velocity up! Intake needle lots of work to make right! Camshaft about .520 minimum!