I already know about the 3G alternator upgrade. I dont think I will go that route as I want to keep my Ammeter working and as an Ammeter.

With that said I found an alternator that Jegs sell which is for trucks that go off roading or trucks that just need more charging capability. The one I am looking at is a Power Master Part # 8-57140, this appears to be a 1G case and its hard to tell as on Power Master`s website it lists that part number as fitting vehicles both with internal and with external regulators which I dont see how that is possible.

But besides that, it talks about requiring a 8 AWG size charge cable. I havent messed with the wiring in the charging system on this style before, but I am fairly certain the charge wire goes from the battery terminal on the back of the alternator to the solenoid. But now my question is the wire the factory used, was or is it a fusible link?

I am thinking about going with a upgrade alternator that is plug in play that is more than the 60 Amps that I have currently and I came across this one appears as if it will be a straight bolt in upgrade.


~update~

Never mind, I just found out that alternator is internally regulated which will not work with an external regulator. So its back to the search for a bolt in replacement of atleast 100 amps. All I find on summit is *******ized hybrids half Ford half GM style casings which require bracket modifications.

 

Do you know why you can't use the factory ammeter with a 3G? It's because the factory charge wire has the shunt to make the ammeter work, and the factory charge wire and shunt are too small. If you upgrade to 100amps, you will need to upgrade the charge wire so you won't burn up the factory wire and shunt, so you are going to lose your ammeter no matter what you do except keeping the factory alternator with the lower output.

I don't know why you are stuck on keeping the factory ammeter. You must have one of the very few that actually work and the needle moves enough to see it.

 

I dont believe that. My Mercury has a factory working ammeter that actually works, it scales up to 65A. The alternator that has been on the car for god knows how long is a 75A alternator. Never burned up never messed the ammeter up and it works just fine.

So why would upgrading to a higher amperage alternator going to cause the ammeter to burn up?

What about if my alternator burns out and I go to advance to buy a new one? The only 1G alternators that you can purchase from any part stores have been manufactured to be rated at 70A. Does that mean if I go and buy this alternator its going to suddenly burn up the factory wiring? I dont buy it because if that was the case they wouldnt be manufacturing or remanufacturing for those that buy the reman as 70A alternators.

Now if 70A is okay increase from a 55A alternator, then why wouldnt a 100A be? Sure my Ammeter doesnt move much but it moves enough for me to know when the alternator is and isnt charging. Its just like on my Mercury when the car sits a couple weeks when I crank it up the ammeter goes to 30A for about 5 seconds then drops to 10A then finally drops after another 5 seconds to its normal rest just a hair to the right of the center line. This is all with a 75A alternator, and when the external regulator failed and shorted out internally my alternator went to full output, I drove for two days like this before I was able to pin point the issue. The ammeter sat just a hair to the right at idle when I would give it throttle it would shoot up close to 60A but its a 75A alternator, never did I see it peg the needle on this nor did it mess the ammeter or burn the factory wiring up.

It is not so much about keeping a working ammeter as it is the fact that I am being told that going with a bigger alternator is going to basically cause electrical fires and burn the truck down and burn up the ammeter but yet if that was true then why have I drove my Mercury for 9 years roughly and never had an issue related to what I said would happen running a larger alternator. I dont know what this car had from the factory might have been a 75A alternator but I know for a fact the Ammeter only goes up to 65A.

 

TRY using Ohms Law ( Frank's Training Course ) for a resistor value before the ammeter. Powerstream has a wire-current calculator, also good for driving lights, American Wire Gauge table and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits with skin depth frequencies and wire breaking strength


I have a 200amp unit from Summit. Works aux lights/stereo/lights/battery chargers into an Odyssey batt from Summit. Bolts into a 115 amp 2008 E250.


Ask Summit for info.


The OEM alternator burned out from low speed use age.

 

If you stay within 5 or 10 amps of the alternator you have now, you can probably get away with it. If the system was designed for a certain size alternator, then it will be ok.

The alternator charge wire on most 80's vehicles is just a 10 gauge wire. It's the bare minumum size when they designed it. Placed in this wire is a very short section with a calibrated resistance to it. This is a very very low resistance, but the voltage drop across this piece of wire(the shunt) is what makes the ammeter read.

You won't actually burn up your ammeter, but you could melt the charge wire and the shunt that makes the ammeter read. If you want the max capability from a 100 amp alternator, you should upgrade the charge wire. I would put at least a 8 gauge on it or larger.

I believe I remember you saying you knew a guy that could upgrade the guts of your alternator to 100amp. Just ask him, I bet he recommends you make the charge wire larger.

 

Well I planned on running a 8 gauge charge wire from the alternator to the solenoid just as a percaution. It was recommended for 150A alternators.

But this is the thing though doing that will basically make my ammeter useless.

Now I have found this, I sent them an email asking a few questions on how this actually works but this is the link.

Mustang 1G to 3G Plug Upgrade

Its for a Mustang but it should work on any setup as a 1G alternator is a 1G alternator. It is a kit that comes with an external regulator, and a harness for $25 that allows you to convert from a 1G to a 3G alternator.

Now the 3G alternator is a internally regulated alternator so you dont need the external regulator. But now I dont know how this works and I asked them how does this set up work and do what they claim it does.

They say using this kit and hooking it up to the factory harness will allow you to upgrade to a 3G alternator but maintains the functionality of your charge indicator and shunt style ammeters.

I also asked them a question that if I put a 150A 3G alternator on this truck and use this kit how does it prevent the ammeter from failing. If I am putting 150A through the wiring how is their kit able to safely operate the factory ammeter without causing a problem.

I know the ammeter wire plugs into the external regulator, I am thinking somehow that new regulator is a solid state device that some how lowers the alternator output for the ammeter to keep it working while still being able to send full charge to the battery.

It comes with full instructions but if I am sastified with the response I get I might just buy the kit and go ahead and do a 150A 3G conversion on this truck.

That way I can install those two 111W (chinese vendor tested one said they draw 90W so they arent 111W truely) spot lights on my pushbar up front then I will get some smaller 45W 4 1/2" LED lights for my roll bar, two middle ones will be spotlights and two outside ones flood lights. I figure if I have the amp capability I might as well use it and go all out.

I just wont have the lights on the same circuit, I think I will use a 3way trigger switch (On-Off-On) and have one On send my highbeam trigger signal to the pushbar mounted lights and the other to send it to either just the roll bar circuit or to send it to both circuits.

 

Here's a link:


alternator internal voltage regulator - Google Search


I'm looking for the headlight design...


I may have forgotten and am misremembering but the Summit hi amp alternators state internal when in fact the regulator is bolted on the outside...in 2014 a 1.5"x2"x5/16ths plastic module ?


No reason why not AFTER installing a much needed higher output alternator, you would then move to wiring up a new circuit to supply the stock ammeter with the correct input.


Not a difficult wiring solution. You could turn off the East Coast from your dash with the right equipment !

 

Well after much discussion and thinking I desided to go ahead and bypass my factory ammeter. The thing works but it doesnt move a whole lot. So I might have it converted to a volt gauge down the road. But as of now I am going to try to head to the junkyard this weekend if I have time to locate a small case 3G alternator one of the 95 amp ones and the wiring.

Will wire it in and just bypass the external regulator and if I am able to I will just keep it plugged in once the bypass is finished just to keep the illusion.

Now since I desided on this I have now turned back to looking at LED spot lights for my truck. I wont buy anymore till I receive the ones I ordered from france off ebay. Guy is selling these 111w LED spot lights 9" round ones for $28 a pair. I got two pair for just under $50, once these come in I want to test them cause a chinese vendor of the same lights said the actual wattage consumption of the lights is actually 90w which means they are not 111w. But the amperage of these two lights that will be installed on a push bar on the front of the truck will have to be known before I can buy the four lights for my roll bar that I will install as well. So far I have put a limit of 25 Amps on Auxiliary lighting.

Right now with Hella ECE composite lenses with Silverstar 9003 bulbs installed 55/60w, I am at 12.33A @ 13.8 volts with the high beams on. So if I keep my auxiliary lighting under 25 amps that means at night time with every light on driving I should never go over 37.33A @ 13.8 volts.

With that in mind and the fact this truck is bare bones with just a dealer installed A/C and a factory radio, I dont think a 95A 3G alternator would have a problem keeping up with this truck.

If anything I think it gives me more flexibility in the sense that if I dont like the silverstar 55/60w bulbs I can always try the hella offroad 55/100w bulbs and not have a concern. Or I could add a small amp to give myself better sound out of the oem radio, I am still trying to find a amp that is small enough to mount behind the dash but has enough features for me to squeeze some bass out of the stock radio in conjunction with three or four way aftermarket speakers. Besides that the only other option I might do is a CB radio but I never did plan on adding much to the truck other than going for a traditional off road look around here. The rest of the money I spend will be sunk into the performance of the truck.

 

The 200 amp alternator from Summit specs at 110 amps at idle, 200 amps at 65-70 mph.


The stock 110-115 unit supplies 75 amps at 35 mph and up...I'm guessing roughly. The 2008 truck with A/C uses at least 75 amps getting down the road. Standard lights add 25 amps leaving 10-15 amps for standard radio.


The unit doesn't ad charge standing at a stop light, losses charge with lights on.


That's it. Loss of charge running everything at once is gradual leaving road room for recharging...somewhere.,,,which is turn the radio off when the lights turn yellow.


The 'standard' OEM problem gets worse in very cold weather and an older battery.


A Jeepster ran into me the other day sporting 2 rows of Rigid LED light bars on hood ....out of the airstream...turning them on under a late afternoon overcast, significantly brightening the immediate area in a broad swath of illumination.


We're tracking him to see where he parks it.

 

I am guessing that the 95a newer alternator would be the same design as the 130a unit, which gives more output at lower rpms.

Now you are moving up to a higher amp alternator and larger sized charge wire, don't stop there and try using the stock harness for this extra power. The relay kit for the lights will take load off the headlight switch and the stock harness, I would not put any extra lighting on the harness. If you get a amplifier, it will hook directly out there at the battery also.

I recommend you hook the larger charge wire to the battery or the battery solenoid connection, and then run another large wire from that connection to a small aux fuse box. Hook the headlights relay kit and the aux lighting to this new fuse box under the hood. All your extra loads and the extra current from the alternator will not be going through the stock wiring, but will be going through your new aux fuse box.

 

For the headlight relays, they were going to draw power from a power/ground junction block I installed. It has two 1/4" threaded studs and one of them I am using for ground the other for power. I will be running a 12 gauge wire from the solenoid to the junction block. I figure 12ga should be well over enough for the headlights. The ground side was going to be a 12 gauge wire ran to the block where the ground wire bolts up at.

If there is any issues with this setup, I can take and change it up but I would have to redo the ground wires I routed for the two factory horns to supplement them with a good ground to battery.

 

You could run two 12 gauge wires to your junction block, and hook your headlight relays and the aux lighting to this same stud. The headlight relays, the aux lighting, and anything else(like the amplifier) would all need inline fuses near the junction. You could do this instead of the aux fuse box.

 

Right now I ran just for now a single 10 Gauge hot wire from the solenoid to my junction block for providing power to the relay kit I installed saturday for my headlights.

I need to look up what the max amperage a 10 gauge wire can handle as I have a 30 Amp ATC fuse right now, but I want to go 5 or 10 amps below the max of the wiring that way when I hook up other electrical systems to that junction block such as the LED light power wires, it can pull how ever many amps they want long as it doesnt push the limit of the power wire I ran.

Now I did try out my headlights with the engine off and the engine running, the brightness did not change between running and off but I also did not give the truck any throttle, it might be cause I am only using the stock 55/60w halogen bulbs that came with the headlamp kit. I am sure they would be dim if I ran the 55/100w halogen bulbs that I am thinking I might end up upgrading to at a later date.

I how ever did not make it out to the junkyard saturday as the headlight relay kit I installed ended up an all day job. Probably be next weekend or the weekend after that.

So far I think I can get by like this but if I add another relay to power the LED spotlights/floodlights (what ever lighting I go with) I might need to just get a relay box to mount the three or four relays in. But I will cross that bridge when I get to it. I just need to hit up summit and try to find a inline fuse holder with 10 gauge pigtails (all the local part stores had was 12 gauge). I also need to hit up ebay and see if I can find me some automotive wire on a 50ft spool of 10 gauge black wire for my ground junction block.

 

If you want to stay on the conservative side with the wiring, 10 gauge will handle 30 amps, 12 gauge 20 amps, 14 gauge, 15 amps, 16 gauge, 10 amps.