Do I understand correctly that you can't run single shots on stock programming but that they will require either a custom tune or PCM reflash?

If this is true what is the average price to have a pcm flashed.

Had read a couple of places that 160's could add a little power and be a little more fuel efficient than stock sticks but don't want a custom tune just yet.

 

You can run single shots on a stock tune, but you'll need to get your windows tinted to limo black because the way it idles will want to make you stick your head in the sand.

Think 60's muscle car with a really big race cam that is running diesel and is sick. That's about what your idle will be like. Driving around actually won't be too bad.

 

If you don't want to spend money on a chip, you really don't want bigger injectors - unless you detune them. If you buy them and keep them powered down, you'll enjoy the fuel economy gain and lower EGTs when pulling heavy.

 

DP does it, I think around $100 or so.

 

Rich,
I'm looking at the PHP Hydra. My concern is that should I want to pull the chip completely out for trouble shooting or some other reason I want the truck to be able to run smoothly on what ever sticks are installed.
My original plan was to go with stock injectors but then saw mentioned that singles could be more fuel efficient. My injectors are pretty noisy when the engine is cold and I don't have as as much power or the fuel mileage I think I should. Just a visual on the injectors show varnish and discoloration that indicates they've been in the truck quite a while(Unfortunately I don't have any history on the truck and you've seen my data logging showing everything else is working like it should). So since I need to replace the injectors anyway I'm looking at my options. When I saw that 160's w/stock nozzles were about the same price as stock sticks I figured why not. Just gotta figure out the PCM portion of the puzzle.

Of course this is all new to me and I could be missing several key factors. That's why I come here so the Brotherhood can help me not make mistakes.

 

Thanks Chris. That will help me work out the budget.

 

Tony at Total Diesel Performance, One of the guys that comes highly recommended on this site, shows the hydra with 6 custom tunes for $425 on the website. He also sells full force injectors.

You going new or reman on the injectors?

 

Seems like lots of suppliers are selling Full Force and they seem to have a good name. I figured their remans should be decent quality.

As for were to get the chip, PHP is right down the road from me here in Ga so that's one option. East Coast Diesel offers the chip with 15 preset tunes for yr/make of truck for $375. I hadn't even considered custom tunes but at that price and with the excellent reputation Tony has it's worth considering.

 

The preset tunes won't cover the single shot injectors, you have to get the custom tunes for that.

You might want to hear what Rich has to say about remans. I've read a lot of threads in the last couple years where people have problems with remans, like having to send one back a couple times to before getting it right. A couple guys, including Rich, ended up upgrading to new because they couldn't get the remans right.

 

And this is why I come here to ask before pulling the trigger on anything.

I wonder if any one has had good luck with Full Force remans? You know with Tugly if it can go wrong it will

 

My lot in life - to be the cautionary tale.


If it was just me, I would have shut my yap. It's not just me - I have seen a multitude of people having issues with remans - no matter who the rebuilder was. I've read many high words about a number of builders, but none of them are impervious to rework - with us doing the hard part of pulling the sticks and leaving a dead hulk in the driveway while we wait for corrections to the injectors. FFD has excellent customer service, they are real stand-up people - as are DP and Riffraff. PHP? Not so much... sorry.


The problem can sometimes be the product - and you have to count on that customer service to square the product away. As good as I am at popping VCs, I hate it. All I wanted to do is put the damn parts in and drive - and I assume that would be your goal as well. With injectors - nothing beats new when it comes to performance, reliability, and durability. If you save a few bucks up front with remans - that's an 8000-pound dice to roll. Stinky crapped out, as did a number of members on this very forum.


I went so far as to get nine new sticks (they are custom), with the 9th as a spare or for swapping when troubleshooting (not needed with IH 160 stock sticks - they are available everywhere). How much money do you suppose I saved when I first went with remans?


PCM - I have two of them programmed with my custom tunes for Stinky's sticks, but I obsess over not breaking down far from home.


I wouldn't say the single-shots are quieter, I'd say they make a different sound. Tuning, fuel mods, and injector torque have done more for noise than anything else.


Tony or Matt (tame) tunes with Hydra, a stock-powered tune burned to the PCM, and new injectors will fill all your needs. I have all of that, except my tunes are from Cody.

 

If PHP is literally down the road, I'd suggest you go that route. Getting your tunes tweaked for any reason are much easier when you can just drive over there and see them.

 

If you are close to PHP you are also close to DP tuner. I would call both , get $$$ information, and then get live tuned. If buying injectors through them they may cut you a deal on live tuning.

 

I had DP tunes...for some 100k miles. When I went to the new 160/30 from PIS, I bought them through DP, and had the tunes revised free of charge. I went back and forth a couple times with DP over the tunes...sensitive, LOUD...really loud on cold start, trans shifting had changed, and many iterations of trans tuning didn't help.

Finally jumped on the Hydra band wagon and had Cody do some tunes for me. Out of the box better in every regard...EVERY regard.

 

I can endorse DP's service - but I can't endorse the tunes. I can endorse the Hydra, but not PHP. If you were considering a TS chip, I could throw Brian at BTS on the list.