Engine making a knocking sound.....how to isolate?
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 33
Engine making a knocking sound.....how to isolate?
Well, the truck has been running very good as of late. Installed the trans cooler this weekend and trans temps dropped dramatically! from 210F to 160F. Granted, the ambient temps dropped from 103F down to 90F the past several days but I don't think this was going to drop tranny temps by 40 degrees.
On to next repair........
I've had a knock since I purchased the truck and now it has become louder. I thought it may be the water pump but now I don't know.
How can I determine or use a process of elimination in figuring out what is causing the knock?
It doesn't sound like a valve tapping noise but more like a knock. It appears to be coming from front of engine where alternator, AC compressor, water pump are all located.
Thoughts on how to isolate and find the knock?
Thanks
On to next repair........
I've had a knock since I purchased the truck and now it has become louder. I thought it may be the water pump but now I don't know.
How can I determine or use a process of elimination in figuring out what is causing the knock?
It doesn't sound like a valve tapping noise but more like a knock. It appears to be coming from front of engine where alternator, AC compressor, water pump are all located.
Thoughts on how to isolate and find the knock?
Thanks
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 33
is the mechanic's stethoscope the preferred method? Is this the tool....http://www.harborfreight.com/mechani...ope-69913.html
How about the removal of belts one at a time? Is the air pump you refer to the smog pump; it is located below alternator?
One belt turns A/C comp and PS pump
One belt turns Alt and Smog/Air pump
How about the removal of belts one at a time? Is the air pump you refer to the smog pump; it is located below alternator?
One belt turns A/C comp and PS pump
One belt turns Alt and Smog/Air pump
Tuned
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 398
Likes: 3
From: Vancouver Island BC
is the mechanic's stethoscope the preferred method? Is this the tool....Mechanic's Stethoscope
How about the removal of belts one at a time? Is the air pump you refer to the smog pump; it is located below alternator?
One belt turns A/C comp and PS pump
One belt turns Alt and Smog/Air pump
How about the removal of belts one at a time? Is the air pump you refer to the smog pump; it is located below alternator?
One belt turns A/C comp and PS pump
One belt turns Alt and Smog/Air pump
That's the one... I've always found them quite handy, as brad mentioned a long screwdriver will work. I like the steteccope because you can look directly at what you're probing... With the srewdiver you have to turn your head sideways and stick it on your ear... You have to be careful when working around the belts or things can get interesting
Yes the Air pump is the "smog" pump...
Yu can also remove the belt and spin the pulleys by hand one at a time... will give you an idea of where your problem might be...
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 286
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From: Sumter SC
X2 Island'r, stethoscope's a great diagnostic tool, screwdriver works good but, for $3.99 you can't go wrong
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Take the belts off and spin each pulley by hand.
Pull and push on each one to see if they have have axial play.
AIR pumps like to go bad when the foam filter disintegrates and gets stuck in the vanes.
210* is fine.
Actually 160* is well below the recommended operating range.
Why do you think Ford installed the trans 'cooler' in the radiator header tank, and uses a 195* thermostat?
If you don't care to believe me, PM Mark Kovalsky on this forum.
Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - View Profile: Mark Kovalsky
He was an automatic transmission engineer AT Ford for decades.
He'll tell you that optimal pan continuous temperature for the E4OD is 170-220, and 250 the max short term temp.
Pull and push on each one to see if they have have axial play.
AIR pumps like to go bad when the foam filter disintegrates and gets stuck in the vanes.
210* is fine.
Actually 160* is well below the recommended operating range.
Why do you think Ford installed the trans 'cooler' in the radiator header tank, and uses a 195* thermostat?
If you don't care to believe me, PM Mark Kovalsky on this forum.
Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - View Profile: Mark Kovalsky
He was an automatic transmission engineer AT Ford for decades.
He'll tell you that optimal pan continuous temperature for the E4OD is 170-220, and 250 the max short term temp.
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 33
210* is fine.
Actually 160* is well below the recommended operating range.
Why do you think Ford installed the trans 'cooler' in the radiator header tank, and uses a 195* thermostat?
If you don't care to believe me, PM Mark Kovalsky on this forum.
Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - View Profile: Mark Kovalsky
He was an automatic transmission engineer AT Ford for decades.
He'll tell you that optimal pan continuous temperature for the E4OD is 170-220, and 250 the max short term temp.
Actually 160* is well below the recommended operating range.
Why do you think Ford installed the trans 'cooler' in the radiator header tank, and uses a 195* thermostat?
If you don't care to believe me, PM Mark Kovalsky on this forum.
Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - View Profile: Mark Kovalsky
He was an automatic transmission engineer AT Ford for decades.
He'll tell you that optimal pan continuous temperature for the E4OD is 170-220, and 250 the max short term temp.
Thanks
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
There should be an inlet muffler (large plastic can) that houses a foam filter.
I have seen many of these fall apart and gum up the vanes inside the pump, which then cause the bearings to fail.
The rotor starts whacking around in the housing.
I think Bashby is suggesting you start the engine without any belts just to see if the noise is internal or external.
If it is an accessory you will likely notice play or a rough bearing right away.
I trust Mark with all he says.
If he thinks it is alright to run it that way, I suppose it is.
I don't like to see low temps in an automatic because it is hard on the frictions and causes sludge due to condensation.
I have seen many of these fall apart and gum up the vanes inside the pump, which then cause the bearings to fail.
The rotor starts whacking around in the housing.
I think Bashby is suggesting you start the engine without any belts just to see if the noise is internal or external.
If it is an accessory you will likely notice play or a rough bearing right away.
I trust Mark with all he says.
If he thinks it is alright to run it that way, I suppose it is.
I don't like to see low temps in an automatic because it is hard on the frictions and causes sludge due to condensation.
Tuned
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 398
Likes: 3
From: Vancouver Island BC
It will sound exactly like the noise you are trying to track down, only LOUDER and much clearer... That's why the Doc uses one to listen to your heartbeat... Although his is fancier and more expensive, the end result is the same... It makes things easier to hear.
When you put it on the accessory, whether its the ALT, Air pump, engine, or whatever turns out to be making the noise you will KNOW which one is the culprit.
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 33
I think I tracked it down to the air/smog pump. Removed belt that spins alt and smog pump. No play in either shaft. When spinning smog pump by hand it makes a slight noise.
Can I run engine without alt/smog pump belt? Will this cause any electrical problems or damage anything?
Can I run engine without alt/smog pump belt? Will this cause any electrical problems or damage anything?
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 33
Islandr....it appears to be the air pump!! Removed alt/air pump belt and no more knocking noise.
Now, is replacement pretty straightforward? I live in Cali so, unfortunately, no delete for me. I checked price at Oreilly's.....Cardone reman for $228!!!!!!
Have any of you replaced yours? Where did you purchase? Brand? Any Replacement tips?
Thanks!
Now, is replacement pretty straightforward? I live in Cali so, unfortunately, no delete for me. I checked price at Oreilly's.....Cardone reman for $228!!!!!!
Have any of you replaced yours? Where did you purchase? Brand? Any Replacement tips?
Thanks!
Tuned
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 398
Likes: 3
From: Vancouver Island BC
Islandr....it appears to be the air pump!! Removed alt/air pump belt and no more knocking noise.
Now, is replacement pretty straightforward? I live in Cali so, unfortunately, no delete for me. I checked price at Oreilly's.....Cardone reman for $228!!!!!!
Have any of you replaced yours? Where did you purchase? Brand? Any Replacement tips?
Thanks!
Now, is replacement pretty straightforward? I live in Cali so, unfortunately, no delete for me. I checked price at Oreilly's.....Cardone reman for $228!!!!!!
Have any of you replaced yours? Where did you purchase? Brand? Any Replacement tips?
Thanks!
I was going to remove mine, and then it got quiet again. It was getting loud last winter, I think maybe it was a cold weather thing.
Replacement should be a pretty simple task. Remove belt, hoses, unbolt, slap new one in, reverse process...
How was the belt tension? Did you put the belt back on yet and retension? A belt that is too tight can cause the ALT bearings to make funny noises too.
That would be the last thing I would try before dropping my hard earned cash on an Air Pump....