Front brake upgrade?
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,958
Likes: 105
From: Houston
The only thing I can think of that might give you some difference in braking is a hydroboost conversion. These can be found on f450 trucks in the junkyard or if you punch one of them in at a parts store they will come up. Instead of using a vacuum booster it uses the hydraulic pressure from the power steering. A lot of cars and trucks use them now, especially when room is at a premium.
This is not increasing the rotor area or the pad area, but it will increase the pressure delivered to the calipers relative to the amount of foot pressure you apply. It's done all the time on f250/350's. Not sure if it has been done on a f150 before, but I don't see why it would not work. You do also have to change the reservoir on the power steering pump for a extra return line, and you need a couple more lines that go to the hydroboost.
This is not increasing the rotor area or the pad area, but it will increase the pressure delivered to the calipers relative to the amount of foot pressure you apply. It's done all the time on f250/350's. Not sure if it has been done on a f150 before, but I don't see why it would not work. You do also have to change the reservoir on the power steering pump for a extra return line, and you need a couple more lines that go to the hydroboost.
Might require some fabrication but it shouldnt be hard to do. If not can always hit up Hydratech. They sell aftermarket conversions which use OEM style hydroboost systems but give you everything to install on your vehicle. They are custom made in house to mimic OEM look and fit for your vehicle.
Way how we do it though, we convert to a pump with a external reservoir. What we did on the Camaro with the factory pump was we spliced into the OEM return line with a three way T. You have to put the T in the right hook up as indicated in the instructions if you use a Hydratech unit, and it worked fine as is. They also told us we could drill and tap the pump reservoir and thread in a return that way also.
If your vehicle isnt listed how ever, they do sell universal sets as well.
Havent checked cause I dont care to upgrade my brakes, my '82 F150 I have locked the brakes up on it before in an emergency. Plus I installed a new brake booster earlier this year. Only thing I really want to do is check the drums to see if they are set too loose pedal seems to travel a little far for my tastes.
Senior User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 307
Likes: 1
From: McMinnville, TN
Wagner has a few "grades" of brake pads, but that shouldn't affect quality. What has affected quality is the economic downturn and corporate bottom line. I know that Federal-Mogul has bought or opened plants in Mexico, China, and India in recent years. The Mexico parts have had issues, but I think that it may have been limited to loose shims and hardware. That's shoddy workmanship, but the parts should still "work" the same. All that said, most every "brand" is manufactured in the same facility if it is for the same application. As far as I can tell, the brake pads for our trucks are made in America. Probably because the demand is a bit lower than a new vehicle.
Thread Starter
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Elder User
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 978
Likes: 1
From: Covington VA
I definitely know more about pads than i did before this thread. I appreciate all the replies. I think i may start gathering the pieces to completely rebuild my front and rear brakes. I have a small bit of rotor shake happening. Seemed i could feel a ridge or a sticking spot in one of my calipers when i changed my pads last. I have put 10k+ miles on this truck since i bought it in May of 2012. I have hauled almost level beds full of #57 stone, firewood ranked level or slightly above cab height, large loads of brick, cinder block, blue stone, mulch... Ill probably redo my rear brakes, wheel cylinders, all my rubber lines with a good look over my steel lines. I do know from previous projects that my trucks po didnt do very well and maintenance and care. To him it was a old beater. It is to me a bit too but i want my stuff to work flawlessly.
Now ive heard mixed reviews about 4 wheel disc brakes. Some say it helps while others say it dont. Ive had them factory on other vehicles. But ive never been able to compare a single vehicle with and without. Ive been told i can fit the rear disc from a explorer 8.8 to my 8.8.
Now ive heard mixed reviews about 4 wheel disc brakes. Some say it helps while others say it dont. Ive had them factory on other vehicles. But ive never been able to compare a single vehicle with and without. Ive been told i can fit the rear disc from a explorer 8.8 to my 8.8.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,958
Likes: 105
From: Houston
thing to remember is how much braking does the rear brakes do on a vehicle. Typically most braking is done up front and converting to disc brakes out back generally dont give you an improvement in braking.
It is more about what you want, sure some people can say that it made a difference, but is it a true difference with braking data before and after to back it up, or is it just the "my just washed/polished car feels 20% faster now" mentality. Its very easy for someone to perceive a improvement after a upgrade is done because the person wants an improvement so he fools himself into believing there is a improvement when there might not be.
It is more about what you want, sure some people can say that it made a difference, but is it a true difference with braking data before and after to back it up, or is it just the "my just washed/polished car feels 20% faster now" mentality. Its very easy for someone to perceive a improvement after a upgrade is done because the person wants an improvement so he fools himself into believing there is a improvement when there might not be.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
If you have a ton or more of road base loaded in the back of a quarter ton pickup you can bet the rear brakes are gettting a workout!
I think the drums might have the advantage here.
Much more friction area acting farther from the axis.
But I do not have the experience to back that up.
I think the drums might have the advantage here.
Much more friction area acting farther from the axis.
But I do not have the experience to back that up.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,958
Likes: 105
From: Houston
If you have a ton or more of road base loaded in the back of a quarter ton pickup you can bet the rear brakes are gettting a workout!
I think the drums might have the advantage here.
Much more friction area acting farther from the axis.
But I do not have the experience to back that up.
I think the drums might have the advantage here.
Much more friction area acting farther from the axis.
But I do not have the experience to back that up.
The wreckers we service at work have four wheel disc brakes and let me tell you, the rear rotors are always beyond saveable when it came time to do brakes. Now the trucks we've done that has drum brakes out rear, the drums can be resurfaced and reused.
I dont know if its because wrecker drivers just dont give a ****, but from work experience, we have a lot less wear and tear on drum brakes when they need new shoes over disc brakes out back when they need new pads.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
If the brakes got TOO good I'd be more worried about the sidewall (ply rating) than eating up pads or shoes.
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Thread Starter
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Elder User
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 978
Likes: 1
From: Covington VA
I get heavy at times. My biggest load is 1.53 ton. I get what you are saying about drums and it does make sense. Its what im interested in after all. Bigger pad, more contact. It was a consideration i had being as newer vehicles have 4 wheel disc. Im in good shape for tires. New set of 31/10.50/15 bfg at. Think each tire is rated at 2750 or 3250 off hand. Dont quote me on that but i thought i remembered seeing that.
I do appreciate yalls knowledge and info. I await any more that gets posted in here.
I do appreciate yalls knowledge and info. I await any more that gets posted in here.
Senior User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 307
Likes: 1
From: McMinnville, TN
Wagner pads for our trucks are American made. I couldn't tell you were the shoes are made. Could be America or not.
Senior User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 307
Likes: 1
From: McMinnville, TN
18 wheeler OTR trucks still frequently use drums all the way around. Discs really shine on fade resistance because they dissipate heat better. They work better when wet, also. Centrifugal force throws the water off. There is also a slight advantage on reaction time because the pad is so close to the disc, but it's probably negligible.
Rear drum brakes work very well when they are setup properly.
Rear drum brakes work very well when they are setup properly.
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 57,014
Likes: 2,750
From: Virginia
I get heavy at times. My biggest load is 1.53 ton. I get what you are saying about drums and it does make sense. Its what im interested in after all. Bigger pad, more contact. It was a consideration i had being as newer vehicles have 4 wheel disc. Im in good shape for tires. New set of 31/10.50/15 bfg at. Think each tire is rated at 2750 or 3250 off hand. Dont quote me on that but i thought i remembered seeing that.
I do appreciate yalls knowledge and info. I await any more that gets posted in here.
I do appreciate yalls knowledge and info. I await any more that gets posted in here.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,330
Likes: 17
From: Dryden, ON, Canada
I seem to recall the 70's guys doing a Thunderbird caliper swap with an F350 master.
I know the early 80's trucks use the same style caliper retention system as the 70's trucks, and I have used 82 calipers on an 87 ttb axle with the new style wedges before so it might be a plausable swap.
I know the early 80's trucks use the same style caliper retention system as the 70's trucks, and I have used 82 calipers on an 87 ttb axle with the new style wedges before so it might be a plausable swap.
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
thing to remember is how much braking does the rear brakes do on a vehicle. Typically most braking is done up front and converting to disc brakes out back generally dont give you an improvement in braking.
It is more about what you want, sure some people can say that it made a difference, but is it a true difference with braking data before and after to back it up, or is it just the "my just washed/polished car feels 20% faster now" mentality. Its very easy for someone to perceive a improvement after a upgrade is done because the person wants an improvement so he fools himself into believing there is a improvement when there might not be.
It is more about what you want, sure some people can say that it made a difference, but is it a true difference with braking data before and after to back it up, or is it just the "my just washed/polished car feels 20% faster now" mentality. Its very easy for someone to perceive a improvement after a upgrade is done because the person wants an improvement so he fools himself into believing there is a improvement when there might not be.
a. test your brakes to determine how well they stop.
b. change the fluid and bleed them
c. retest your brakes to determine how well they stop.
i would guess that tire to ground is the problem, or air inside your brake lines.
if you think that your brakes are not sliding correctly check for uneven pad wear
b. change the fluid and bleed them
c. retest your brakes to determine how well they stop.
i would guess that tire to ground is the problem, or air inside your brake lines.
if you think that your brakes are not sliding correctly check for uneven pad wear
find an open empty or an empty parking lot
accelerate to 30 mph (i wont say go faster because I dont know how much room you have but if you want to go over 85mph have at)
fully apply brakes at a set location
measure distance
repeat 3x
bleed brakes then do exactly the following..
find an open empty or an empty parking lot
accelerate to 30 mph (i wont say go faster because I dont know how much room you have but if you want to go over 85mph have at)
fully apply brakes at a set location
measure distance
repeat 3x
then you can see how well your brakes work, I would recommend this to everyone who wants to change their brakes, you might be surprised!