Crescent Ford just called.She`s ready to be picked up.The problem was the "NOX" sensor.Looking forward to many trouble free miles.Thanks guys.

 

Great news, superdutyquest; I'm glad you're back on the road again!

Crystal

 

Thanks Crystal.

 

I don't want to stir up trouble for any dealer or mechanic, BUT .... the first dealer may need some education. They obviously messed up and even went to the point of blaming it on cheap DEF, any way of knowing how he "knew" this?

It just rubs me wrong when anyone does like they did. Just my 2 cents and you can toss them in a water fountain if ya want.

Hijack alert:
Hey MS truck man, where do you live?
I lived in the "Bay" and Waveland, graduated 1981 from Bay High.

 

If you paid for an incorrectly diagnosed repair at the first location I'd seek some reimbursement.

 

No cost at either dealer.I think the first dealer most definitely knew it wasnt the DEF.He just didnt want to take the time to find the actual cause of the CEL.He wanted to kick the can down the road and have me out of his hair.

 

Where did you get the delete kit from? I'm considering it myself as truck is basically out of warranty

 

With 100 miles till empty, the DEF fault light (the exhaust pipe with the water symbol under it) illuminated on the instrument cluster and 30 miles later I got the "Speed Limited to 50mph in XX miles" message. I never got a "low DEF" warning.

In trying to solve the problem, I scanned and found P20EE and P207F and tried to clear them out. Only the 20EE cleared. I ran the tank as empty as I could and filled with diesel. I also changed the fuel filters which needed doing anyway.
The DEF status registered 1/2 on the gauge, so I got a 2 1/2 gallon jug of DEF. I changed the fuel filters and looked to drain the DEF because that's one of the "steps", but that wasn't going to happen. I ran a borescope down the throat and found a mechanical object in the tank and I never saw fluid. It looked like some kind of sensor from what I could see so I just started filling the DEF. It took all 2.5 gal and I put another 1.5 gallons and that finally filled it up. I then took it on a road test to operating temp and the DEF error light went out and the "reduced speed" warning went away.

Research I found:

1) the P207F code means there is an electrical resistance out of tolerance in the DEF. There is a sensor in the DEF tank that continually measures the mixture of ~65% Water to ~35% Urea and if the electrical resistance out of wack, you'll get the associated P207F and reduced performance codes. - (could be that the quantity sensor is defective and the sensor was measuring air)

2) The DEF tank is 5 gallons, but I could only put 4 gallons in. Maybe I got the codes because I was out of DEF. However, I never got a message saying I was low on DEF, the status when I checked it registered 1/2. So there may be a failed sensor. Remember, I used a bore scope to look into the tank.

3) DEF is not caustic or toxic. It is composed of 65% water and 35% urea. The average adult excretes 35 grams of urea in urine. You can argue the point - just argue with yourself after you read some medical and chemistry dictionaries.

4) Keep an eye on that DEF

 

So we should just pee in the DEF fill tube when we get an error code?

 

Yes you can urinate into your def filler, but only if your urine is 65% water and 35% urea.

However, I've heard of Ford drivers urinating onto Chevy and Dodge vehicles without regard to the ratio of water to urea.

 

Haha...some guy named Calvin...but he's not always brand loyal

 

2015 F250 King Ranch 6.7 P207F and DEF warning

Results: Replaced the front and rear NOx Sensors ($370 and $373) with a 19mm wrench and some penetrating oil in 15 minutes. The dealer (Battlefield Ford, "Service Adviser" Glenn) was going to charge me $424 and $430 for the sensors, $260 to install ( guess an hour each) and $130 to "reprogram the PCM" and retest.

I feel sorry (genuine) for people that have to pay some thieves like at Battlefield Ford, (Glenn hartman) to install parts.

No the PCM didn't need updating, it had already been updated. I asked hartman the MSRP for the parts because on a separate occasion he told me the prices I paid (MSRP) at Battlefield Ford's parts counter. Yes it took me 20 minutes, which includes getting the parts out of the boxes, the tools, letting the oil soak-in, removing and reinstalling the sensors. No, I didn't include starting it up and driving on the highway and yes I know a dealer is in business to make money.

I didn't let the dealer fix my truck out of spite. Hartman lied to me, I called him out on the lie and he didn't admit to lying and took a defensive posture.

Now I feel obligated to let others know about Glenn Hartman at Battlefield Ford in Manassas VA lying to me. And I'm 6'3" and weigh 270lbs. If he'll lie to me, he'll lie to anyone.

I imagine "service advisers" work on commission or get a bonus for padding bills, over-inflating estimates, selling parts above retail, etc, etc, etc

 

Sounds like you got a raw deal until you did the job yourself.

Be aware that service "advisors" are typically not mechanics and often have no idea what they are talking about. They have a book that tells them Job times and if experience exists they sometimes pad the job to help the tech. They aren't paid commissions as far as I know. Sounds like they were overcharging on the parts, but not vastly.

Your call, but personally I would not have put the full name of the SA in your post.

Ive been ripped off by Ford service as well, and lied to when caught. But I guess I expected the lie when I called them out...what else would they say?

 

I see your point, but I didn't want to blast all of Battlefield Ford - because the poor mechanics don't deserve a bum wrap. The only person that lied to me was Battlefield Ford Service Advisor Glenn Hartman. Other's there seemed nice even in their parts dept that laid out the parts for me so I didn't have to wait. I also made Hartman kind of mad when I asked for a diagnosis and he told me "you need a new NOx sensor". When I told him a doctor will say you have "ventricular fibrillation" and not "you need a new heart" and that I would like to speak to a mechanic, he got pissed saying he had been a mechanic for 30 years, he's certified in this that and the other blah, blah, blah the picture became quite clear. This guy works on a commission, not the reimbursement times Ford pays. Even in All-Data, it calls for .4, (four-tenths) thats 24 minutes for each component.

I'm not a regular guy, I'm a 50 year old guy that's been around the block many-a-time with 20 years in general automotive and now in aviation. Yes, I still have All-Data, and no, that's not what a SA who makes his money padding the bill here and there and overcharging for parts wants to hear, he just wants to hear either silence or for the poor person to say ok, go ahead. I told my aunt, the owner of my families garage, I'm grateful to God that he gave me mechanical ability and understanding and the intelligence to know when someone is lying to me and trying to cheat me.

So again, Glenn Hartman at Battlefield Ford in Manassas, VA lied to me and tried to cheat me out of my money I work so hard for. I have the itemized estimate I forced him to provide and also the receipt for the parts I bought. And who can forget his response to my question "what is the MSRP on those sensors?" Hartman's response "whatever is on the estimate, I forget". That's right he forgot, because he couldn't remember the lie he had told me.

Never trust a service advisor